Hello, this is my first time posting, I've been checking out this site for years but never actively because I was afraid people would find out- then I realized that no one who cared should be looking at these sites anyway (as bad as porn!) And now I'm desperate to share my frustration. I'm currently attending a small liberal arts college in Virginia owned and operated by church members (not by the church itself). It is in some ways worse than a BYU experience because the small community makes slipping under the church's radar is a lot harder. My father, whom I love unconditionally but who is a hardcore member, is a professor there. Even before I started questioning the church, I swore to myself I wouldn't go to this school to prove I could do better (it was a sad but expected fate of most of us employee children) yet here I am for my second year of it. I can't justify leaving, because 1) I go for free and 2) Since my internal break with the church 3 years ago, I haven't been emotionally stable enough to leave home. I am stuck. And it's awful. The culture is insufferable. The very air stinks of self-righteousness and infuriating optimism. I only survive because an old Mormon friend ended up coming to school here this year and confided in me that he, like me, no longer believes in the church (but we both hide that fact from the members and actively break rules). We have shared our experiences and noticed horrifying similarities in our stories. Both of us have major depression issues that, if not rooted in, are at least related to our struggle for identity now that we no longer believe. We are a sad, lonely pair of rebels in a sea of the clean shaven, the shallow, the Provoite football captain roommate who didn't know what state Boston was in, the professor who tells us our experience here is as good as any we could have at Harvard and then realizes we don't own enough computers to accommodate a class of 20, the airheads who bear the same testimony every month like a 6 year old, the couples meeting and engaging within less than 36 hours (no joke), the home teacher who never lets you forget you missed third hour last Sunday. In short, miserable.

my compliments on both your grammar and syntax! you are obviously both intelligent and witty enough to make it interesting! I'm nevermo so can't help you much on that but without discounting what you're going through can you look on this as your Starter Degree? It's free and with any luck maybe some of your hours will transfer to some legitimate university at a later point?

Maybe you could just pretend that you are in deep cover for the FBI or the CIA...just like many operatives currently are. Your mission is to gather information while not betraying your true identity. To do that you must blend in and not give the slightest hint that you are a part of the opposition.

Keep your wits about you, for you know that freedom awaits at a time certain. In the meantime, you are receiving a 'free' education and gathering information that will prove useful to yourself and others. Good luck!

Siobhan said, "My compliments on both your grammar." I had that exact thought.

Baritone12:

Several weeks ago a poster here at RFM was blogging his church experience live. He was commenting on the talks, the hymns, the special musical numbers in Sacrament Meeting, and his Sunday School and Priesthood lessons. Frankly I was having fun interacting with him. If you must attend church just to survive in your unique environment, maybe a similar church distracting activity might help to make the time fly by quickly and would make sitting through the drivel bearable?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2013 01:04AM by jiminycricket.

Hey there was a young married couple posting here or on a similar site about secretly exploring um banned activities while attending that school last month. So if it wasn't you or your friend, there are more of you...

Forming a band of like minded brothers and sisters (ok maybe that came out wrong) a tight knit cadre of conspirators might help you all deal with that depression and cope...

You are certainly not alone. There are a heap of kindred souls here who have been blighted by the morginisation.

We are geographically all over the place, so even in the middle of your night, if you need to vent, they go ahead, there are probably folk on the other side of the world up for a chat.

Some good advice from Concerned friend there - you alrady have the basis of inner core of support. If you put out feelers, there are probably RfMers not far from you.

If you are doing 3 years at college, it might be good for you to stick out - graduating without massive debt will give you a great start. You'd only have 1 more year to go.

I'm pretty dang geographically close to the OP. Be glad to talk to/meet with a future ExMo. Baritone12, I'll follow this topic to see if you reply.

I understand when you say that the culture in your current situation is insufferable. If you could spend your college years at an open-minded college where the prevailing attitude matches your own then that would be the best possible answer.

But unfortunately it all comes down to money. Attending college is very expensive, not to mention the living expenses. It is difficult to find a part time job that pays well, and working takes time away from your studies. Many students take out loans, but then they end up with a large debt that takes many years to pay off.

Here is a suggestion that may seem rather radical but you may want to consider it. That is to enlist in a branch of the US Military. You may be able to get training in a job skill that would later apply to civilian life. And the Military has extensive post-service financial aid to allow you to attend college when you complete your service obligation. Visit here: http://www.military.com/education/money-for-school/education-benefits-in-the-military.html

This approach would get you out of Mormonism immediately and permanently. It would go a long way toward solving the money problem of attending college.

My son-in-law used this approach to get his college degree. He now has a six-figure salary job and his only debt is his house mortgage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2013 09:47AM by saviorself.

My sister, if she were on this board, would totally feel your pain. She attended a very conservative religious school too (not Mormon though) and she hated every minute of it. But her stepdad works there and the tuition was free. I think she enjoyed shocking all the prim and propers at the school with her dreadlocks down to her ankles and her hippie clothes.

She talked about mandatory chapel and the ways she devised to get out of it. And there were spies that would go into the bars looking for students to bust them on the honor code. When she would get frustrated with all the junior high mandatory crap, I would tell her to repeat to herself over and over, "This is temporary, this is temporary, this is temporary." And also to keep her eye on the prize - which was a college degreee and no student loan debt.

She managed to make it through. And one nice thing was that at graduation it was really easy to pick her out in the crowd of stepford barbie dolls that were graduating with her.

Hang in there. You can make it.

Although it may be a sacrifice, you might consider transferring to a state school to finish your degree. A school that potential employers have heard of and respect is likely to look better on a resume. I've worked in a lot of places where people tend to hire fellow alums. That's something to think about if your future alma mater is a small Mormon upstart. At least you have already saved some money by getting a couple of years of college for free.

When checking out colleges, I'd ask a few things:

1. Which companies regularly recruit students from this university? The list should be a long one and include a lot of Fortune 1000 names.

2. Of the students that go on to graduate school, what percentage go to top tier programs? This number should be close to 100%

3. How many living alums does this school have? Given that alums tend to hire other alums, a larger network is better in my opinion. The smaller the network, the more powerful and well-connected the alums should be.

I bet that if you asked these questions of the university you're attending you'd find that job and graduate school placement is not as strong as you may want it to be when you graduate.

I was in the same situation as the OP and graduated. I will always regret not transferring out and getting real world experience -- socializing with non-Mos, making connections for future employment and enjoying a "normal" college experience instead of hiding out for 4 years. :/

I wonder if this is your Out, right here.

Why on earth would anyone want to transfer out of a free school to another school where they'd have to pay tuition? This post is your answer.

Look, student loans aren't the worst thing in the world. If you get a good job after school, you don't HAVE to only make the minimum payment. I paid off my school loans in about 8 years, but it only took that long because I only made like $7.50/hour (as a magazine editor, wasn't like I was working fast food with a BS in journalism) for a long time. It's not like your degree or your knowledge can be repossessed by a credit collections agency.

In my freshman year of college, I realized I'd rather gnaw my own foot off than choose to continue living with my mormon parents. But I didn't have the guts to just be honest and say, "I didn't live here by choice, ever, so now that I'm old enough to make the choice, I'm going back to Mom's." So when FAFSA came around for the following school year, I realized I'd get a whole lot more financial aid if I lived with my mom and claimed her as the parent, rather than my dad and stepmom with their two incomes. Best move I ever made. I practically got a free ride because Mom made so much less than they did. Anyway, I share that story just to say that, maybe you can find a legitimate reason (to your dad) why you'd want to transfer and then GTFO of there. Perhaps you've learned of a better program in your major at another school...

Anyway, good luck.

so far baritone, your education is doing you well. You really are a great writer. As a person that has gone back to college in her 30's, PLEASE just finish it out and get a degree. You can get another degree elsewhere later on if you want, but take advantage of this opportunity while you can. Post pictures and show them to us of how dumb people are if it makes you feel better lol, but just get your free education while you can. It will pay off later I promise.

At least finish out the year and then transfer out.
You are an adult.

However, if you don't want to go to work or rack up debt you might consider using the free education to your advantage and finish up with a degree.

The decision is up to you alone.

I think that free schooling is a huge benefit you have going for you right now. It is a big deal. I don't, however, think it is more important than your happiness. Not even close.

You need to find a place in life that works for you. That is more important than the possibility of getting into some debt.

Have you considered putting off college and starting a career doing something that doesn't require a degree for now? I know it is unpopular in our culture to choose work over schooling, but there are plenty of fields out there that you might really like and that pay well, but don't require a degree right away.

Another option is to go to school and work at the same time. That's what I did. What a lot of graduates find when they finish college is that most entry level positions in anything worthwhile require work experience, not just a degree.

Either way, find the place or the pursuit that makes you happy. A free education that depresses you is not worth it, in my opinion.

Hello, baritone12. I can totally empathize - I spent a semester at that school a few years ago. I couldn't stand to stay longer than that, exactly because of the culture you're describing. I chose to go to there because I was running away from some problems in Utah, and thought being thousands of miles away with an LDS focus would help me get my mojo back. Instead, my four+ months there marked the beginning of the end of my time as a mormon.

As an example of just how bad it was... While I attended school there, I had a job in the library. One of my shifts was Monday evening. The library was very small, and evenings were very slow, so I was literally the only person on staff between 6pm and closing at 10pm. A few weeks into my first semester there, the school school officials asked us to consider shutting down on Monday nights so that no student would have an excuse not to attend FHE. The entire library staff held a meeting, as did the staffs of the cafeteria, the gym, etc., so we could discuss whether or not we felt this was the right thing to do and report back to the school officials.

Unanimously, the library staff agreed that our education was more important than FHE (which, as we were all single students, wasn't actually about families anyway), and that it was a huge disservice not to have the library available to students on Monday nights. As I was the only staff member directly affected by the proposed closure, and I wasn't going to attend FHE if you paid me, it was a no-brainer. Our boss went to the school and said the library staff had decided to stay open on Mondays. Apparently, the staffs at the other student services around campus had all chosen to stay open, as well.

Nope. None of that. The school shut us down anyway. My 6-10 Monday night shift was eliminated - and since it was a work study job that was covering part of my tuition, I had to turn around and start paying the school the difference. I wrote a pretty scathing editorial for the school paper about it (which probably wouldn't have been printed, except my friend was the editor and she slipped it in last minute). This was supposed to be a school, but clearly the education of the students was less important than sitting around their apartments with a group of assigned friends playing Catch Phrase.

I remember going home after Sacrament meeting only to have my RS and EQ presidencies show up knocking on the door during the second hour to try and get me to come back. I remember being disciplined by my RA for doing laundry on a Sunday - on the machine inside my own apartment. I remember my roommate and I turning off the lights and locking the door to watch an R-rated movie with the volume turned down on her laptop. I remember spending hours making a poster for a fundraiser only to have it rejected because I used a photo of a guy with a couple days worth of stubble. And I remember one of my professors telling me the same bullshit line about Harvard - he's probably the same one.

I am so glad that you have a friend and confidante. That will make it so much more bearable. I guarantee that there are other students there who are closer to being on your side than you think - they might still be mormon, but they're not extremists. When I was attending, there was a very clear line between the "rebels" and the rest of the student body. Find a few more people who actually possess a sense of humor and more than two brain cells to rub together, and you'll be golden. It's only a few more years. :)

I know the town you are in very well. My mom grew up there and went to that school many years before it was Mormon. I also know the wife of the CFO. She sang in a choir with me at my college before the Mormons invaded Buena Vista.

I have to say, reading your post made me feel good. That's not because you're miserable. It's because I think it's sad that my mom's hometown is being overrun with Mormonism. I remember the days before the Mormons came and it was a different place.

I happen to know the area you're in has some great places to escape to. I also agree with those who say you should look into transferring if you can. I even agree with the guy who suggested the military. My husband got a ROTC scholarship, graduated from a very expensive private university, and as a lieutenant colonel, makes six figures (including housing). He got a master's degree practically for free and is now getting certified in computer security so that when he retires next year, he'll be more employable.

Student loans can be a pain. I have them myself. They aren't the end of the world, though, and a good education is something no one can take from you.

I hope you'll write again. I enjoyed your post and I think you write very well.

Baritone,

If you ever come up to DC and need to talk there's lots of us in NOVA. Feel free to message me. I am an RM, still on the records, and enjoy knowing the church is a hoax. I'm with you.

Never forget that despite it being free, you can leave that school and transfer lots of credits to Wm and Mary, UVA, VTech, JMU, etc. They have made it very easy to transfer to those schools for Virginia residents (only) now. While you have "free" tuition, I would like to highlight that University of Virginia tuition alone is $5008 per semester (undergrad) for VA residents; where you currently attend the tuition alone is $9450 per semester (as a comparison in educational value.) UVA is the most expensive public school in VA, and I might add continually fights to maintain its position as a top 25 school in the country (again illustrating the lack of value in the school you attend.) If you can transfer for your last two years, you may potentially get out of there with well less than $20k in student loans (and that's if you personally finance the remainder yourself.) Believe me I live and work in DC and can authoritatively say that 20k in student loans and an undergrad from UVA beats no student loans and an undergrad from your current institution.

There may be such a thing as a free education, but sounds like in this case the church still has you by the balls...is it really "free?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2013 02:35PM by Yaqoob.

and have the gift of being humorous. Use the writing as a therapeutic tool, no matter how you resolve this situation. You might end up with a good column or stand-up routine as a result of this. Oh and as someone else mentioned, always remember that it is temporary.

Look into SVU's Travel Study programs. Some of the trips (i.e. a New York theater trip during spring break) are quite affordable and would get you out of town. And I think that getting out of town would do you a world of good. Part of being happy is having something to look forward to.

http://svu.edu/travel-study#International

You might also see if SVU will accept credits from another university's study abroad program. If so, that would get you away for up to a year or more.

Are there other colleges near you where you could go to hang out? Most campuses let people wander freely, use the student union, the libraries, etc.

When a major part of your life sucks, it helps to have other aspects that are working well. So try to think creatively about improving your life. That might involve getting a set of wheels to get out of town on the occasional weekend, etc., or developing an interest or sport that would likewise get you out of town, i.e. skiing, snowboarding, hiking, etc. Relaxing in nature can give you a lot of peace when your world is turbulent.

Finally, as much as you can do so, think of school, and all Mormon aspects of it, as a job. Go and do it, then shake it off and go home.

Good luck to you, and please keep us updated about how things are going.

P.S. I like your writing as well!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2013 10:28PM by summer.

The study abroad or such programs is a great idea!

Just from googling and not really looking into it beyond that, your school says they have a consortium program with Washington and Lee University for education majors.

[QUOTE] ...currently participates in a consortium with Washington and Lee University.[/QUOTE]

Don't know your course of study (and it may be wise not to say it here on an open forum) but that's at least one program you could get away for a year...even if it's not getting you far, it'd be a different school and no LDS affiliation.

And if they have a consortium program for education, they may for other degrees as well.

Or, perhaps you could get creative and work with your advisors to come up with some sort of independent study program that would allow you to go elsewhere and transfer the credit. If you can propose a reason why doing something elsewhere would be best for your long term plans, at least many smaller private universities I know will often go for it.

For instance, if you were a business major, come up with a way that a year studying overseas would be the best experience for an international business focus. Or...?

You really could justify something for any course of study, IMO, it's just a matter of selling it the right way. And maybe a year reprieve would make it do able...or even just a semester reprieve!

I'm sorry college is so bad for you. It should be a wonderful experience.

Try to remember it won't last forever. Learn everything you can; later you may go to another better college. Pretend you're an undercover agent, or--here's a great idea--plan to write a book about your experiences! Mormons already love diaries, so keep one. Write the stupid, mindless things you see around you. If you don't keep a record, you will forget. Make a note of every brainless comment. You might write a best-seller.

Its free.
Suck it up.
Stay

What about planning for a summer job in a National Park or a resort town in another state? I know when we used to go to Catalina Island (California) on our little boat, my husband and I talked about trying for a job for the next summer there (I as a waitress and he doing shoreboat-type stuff). Since it was on an island, they provided dorms for summer workers.

Or, get a part-time job now and save some money to travel a bit in the summer.

Knowing you have some freedom and adventure coming up at the end of the year might help you get through a tough time at your school.