A lady in my neighborhood sent me this message on Facebook today: I miss seeing you at church. Is there anything I can say or do to get you to start going. I would love to have someone to sit next to at relief society.

My reply:
We stopped believing in the church quite a few yeas ago after learning some things they'll never teach you in church such as Joseph Smith marrying other men's wives. We tried to keep going for a while, but it is too hard to go when I feel like the church white washes its history. Thanks so much for the invite, I appreciate you thinking of me.

Her reply: I was wondering why I hadn't seen you at church for awhile. I have heard that Joseph Smith was sealed to other women. I assumed to give them the blessing of the temple. I just asked my brother for more clarifications on that. He said that, at the time of Joseph Smith not all of the understanding was there at that time. That as futher revelation came about, these mistakes were fixed. The church as always been run by imperfect men and women.
I have struggle at times in my life with polygamy. But I've come to understand that there were many women at the time who had a great desire for temple blessings, and a family, and there were not the amount of worthy men that they could receive the blessing of the temple with. I also know that I will probably not understand all the purpose behind it. But's that ok, because I know how I feel when I'm doing I'm following the doctrines of the gospel.
When I think of all the early saints when though and sacrafied to come here to Utah, all to be able to have the blessing of an Eternal Family and be able to worship free from the pursecusion, I'm in awe of them.
Thank you or sharing with me your reasons. I know that you have a wonderful family and sweet children. I would love to see your family back at church again. I hope you can forgive men for their imperfections. Our church is The Lords church. Built on the Teaching of our Savior Jesus Christ. The only one among us who is perfect is the Savior. I hope you pray with your family, and have religion in your home. I know I don't always want to go to church or pray with my family somtimes I just want to stay in bed. But I know that the church of Jesus Christ has blessed my life, and that praying with my husband and children has brought us closer together.

I'm wondering if any of you have any good ideas for a response, or is it best to just simply thank her for caring?

Sounds as if she has questions herself. The simple fact that she researched what you said is actually amazing. I've never had a single Mormon look into what I said to see if it's really true.

I'd say keep planting a few seeds.

I'm so tempted to plant more seeds!

Maybe send her the link to JS's wives online.

What a shame she has to ask her brother about stuff when google is a great source. (Albeit scary for a TBM to use hahah)

Good point, thank you.

Send her the CES letter.... she can discuss that with her brother!

Yes, I should!

As I said, I'm not interested in attending the Mormon church. If you make a more thorough study of these topics and decide to consider leaving as I did, let me know."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2013 06:37PM by Cheryl.

^this

Mormonthink.com,

Put this in your return email.

I would tell her a third of the women were all ready married many to church leaders who would of given them temple blessing. Tell her another third were teenagers as young as 14 who never had a chance to find a single man for temple blessings. Then also why were must of them behind Emma's back and against the law. Tell her Jesus said by your fruits you shale know them. Plus you can't follow a cereal adulator and pedophiles.

Lastly tell her you are doing great an never realized how happy and great your life could be with out the church and she would be welcome to sit by you at Starbucks for girl talk, much funner.

So good!! You brought up some very great points. Love the Starbucks comment!

I love this new push to give members permission to ask Us inactives back. It give me more opertunites to tell them the truth. They can't complain because they contacted you. So use these opertunites to spread the real truth in a firm but polite way so they to may be free one day. I think this will backfire on the church and they may lose more then reactivate. Plus they are hearing this information from people they know and sometimes love not from some stranger they label anti- Mormon.

What bugs me most is how she hopes we teach religion and have prayer in the home. It is really none of her business and i would never think it is my place to tell someone how to raise their kids.

Just email her and tell her YOU KNOW the LDS church is FALSE. You can prove it by studying mormonthink or utlm, etc. information. Then say Since I just told you the truth you cannot deny you heard the truth about this corrupt church/leaders when you go to be judged and if you try to deny it I would testify against you if I could. Tell her if she reviews the evidence and finds out Joseph (the adulterer/pedofile, etc.) and Brigham (murderer, false doctrine teacher, had no clue who God was, etc.) were true prophets then you will let her explain your issues to your satisfaction then you will reconsider attending church! I find this very effective on older, nicer sheep ----- they either almost have a heart attack or maybe look at the websites but more than likely will not try to reactivate you so casually! I have explained this to 3 people so far and no one has bothered to even talk to me again. Praise the Lord!

The healthiest response would simply be this:

"Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your feelings. We're very happy and we're glad that you are, too."

And be done. Because unless this person is somebody that you so deeply care about, your time can be spent so much better.

HealthyResponse makes a good point.

Unless you are deeply invested in a close relationship with this individual, why waste your time?

You can be super brief, but friendly in that you're touched that she cares and has thought about you, but that you and your family are doing great.

I think it really gets under the skin - for reasons they can't quite figure out - of many TBMs when they see the friendly neighborhood apostate who is relaxed, sane, happy and not interested in reverse-proselytizing them. It really makes them curious, and even if they don't bother you with more questions it might lead them to keep a bit more of an open mind for future apostates they encounter as well as (gasp) start investigating stuff on their own.

Or not. Either way, without a personal investment or real friendship, it sounds like there isn't much point in drawing out the interaction any further.

I don't agree with this at all. I think this person is actually thinking and this is a great opportunity to get more people out. I am definitely on the side of those who want to destroy the church. Even if it's just one member at a time.

+1

Yes, men and women are all imperfect, however when you start a sentence with "thus says the Lord" you had better be perfect.

Haha!! Amen!

I'd leave it alone, or maybe just say, "Thanks for your understanding and your friendship." However, I do agree that there are seeds of doubt there, someone really trying to justify some pretty bad things in church history in her own mind. Maybe you could add, "If you have any questions, you always know where to find me."

If she persists...first try to see if she's trying to learn from you...and if it turns out to be merely a reactivation attempt, then open fire with all barrels.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2013 06:40PM by stillburned.

Since Joseph Smith married his apostle's wives and daughters, her theory doesn't hold up.

In your kind response, I would mention this fact.

Which apostle's wife and/or daughters did he marry?

Heber C. Kimball's daughter... Helen Mar Kimball. Heber was a sick bastard douchecanoe who traded his daughter for a guaranteed spot in heaven AND for the opportunity to get to do the same with other girls.

Nice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2013 05:48PM by Bite Me.

Say you don't want to be a part of a mind control cult that hates gays and believes people get dark skin because they are evil.

Be sure to follow up with the polyandry. Maybe mention that polygamy was bad enough, but the stealing (be sure to call it that) of other men's wives after sending them away on missions, was inexcusable. Then refer to the CES letter, maybe use it as an attachment. Say, "maybe a few things can be overlooked due to the imperfections of man but, I can't believe a god would leave this many outright falsehoods - refer to the attachment."

What CES letter?

Mormonthink dot com has it posted.

Its a letter someone wrote about some of the reasons he is leaving the church......it covers a lot of ground.

I did it! Here is my response. Thanks for all the suggestions :)

Polygamy was bad enough, but the stealing of other men's wives after sending them away on missions, was inexcusable. A third of his wives were teenagers as young as 14 who never had a chance to find a single man for temple blessings. Most of the marriages were behind Emma's back, not to mention against the law. Yes, men and women are all imperfect. However, when you start a sentence with "Verily, thus saith the Lord" as stated in section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants, you better get it right.

Polygamy is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many things they don't tell you in church. Our leaving is the result of intense study, reflection and a sincere desire to understand things for what they are, not for what we want them to be. If you make a more thorough study of Joseph's many wives and have any questions, let me know.

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

That was very well stated!

Nice work.....you've done your part. ;)

He wasn't "sealed to other women." He married and bedded the wives of other men.

All you have to say is......

Fanny Alger.....explain that one.

Dear neighbor,
I heard you were moving. May I help you move?

"I have to draw the line as to what I will permit those who lead me in my spiritual life. Joseph Smith and the church do not meet the high standard I have and I do not want to make excuses for their behavior. I would not have followed them today knowing what I know, and I would not have followed them in the 1800's for the same reason"

"If Thomas S Monson started marrying 14 year old girls and other mens wives would you follow him if he said God commanded it?... I would not. So there you go. There are some lines I will not cross nor tolerate religious leaders to cross either"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2013 06:33PM by whatiswanted.

Exactly! This is exactly what I think too.

Beautiful response.

The wives of Joseph Smith is a good website but it only addresses one issue. I would have added the CES letter so she knows the problems aren't just polygamy. That will give her some other issues to chew on as well.

I'd make it clear that you're not coming back. Tell her that if she wants to be a friend, she's welcome to stay in contact with you (which might give you an opportunity to plant some seeds). But make it clear that you're not going back. Anything less just encourages them to keep at you.

"I miss seeing you at church. Is there anything I can say or do to get you to start going. I would love to have someone to sit next to at relief society."


Response: I miss seeing you when I am out mowing my lawn or washing the car. Is it possible for you to interact cordially with me outside of your church paradigm? I would love to have someone sit and shoot the breeze with me on my porch and enjoy a soda/beer (LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE).

This is her latest response and I am thinking she doesn't want another response from me: I know that the book of Mormon is true. I know that a wicked man could not have brought forth such a good book. I believe he probably did make mistakes. I don't believe he every had wicked intent. I do believe that there are many people out their who would go to any length to discredit him. I'm sorry we disagree on this topic. I hope for nothing but joy for your family.

Hopefully, she will at least quit trying to reactivate you.

because of the conference talks to bring those of us who left "back to the fold".

You were an assignment.

I liked your response to her.

The seeds are germinating. She is scared. She opened the door and now doesn't know what to do. Her shelf is cracking big time. Love it. Send a a smile and a hug. Her beliefs are crashing. You will hear more but it may take a few more months

Then all you really need to say is, "We are very happy, thank you, and know that the decisions we've made are right for our family."

This proves that if you so desire you can rationalize anything.