So, we knew it would come.

I got home from my mission late Monday night/early Tuesday morning and had a meeting with him to be released Tuesday afternoon. He set-up for another appointment, and I figured it was the least he deserved to at least talk with me about some of my doubts and problems. Little did I know he isn't any different, and no, he wouldn't actually listen to me.
I'd just like to share some points about what he said in our recent meeting. It began with me saying that I had some major doubts. I told him I had no plans to break major commandments or leave the church because I wasn't in a state of mind to make a good decision like that with all that was going on (truth is, it's because of my dependence on my parents, and while in their house, their rules).
Of course, he wanted specifics, so I started. I said that I held my beliefs in TSCC being the 'one and only' based on the priesthood. I explained that the integrity of JS was not sufficient for me to place my trust in him.
"Why not?"
"Whelp..."
"That's all hearsay, and what's more, it doesn't matter. Why does this bother you so much?"
"I feel like I have a fake image of who JS is. I feel lied to. The church, by church-published public means has shown that JS did things contrary to what he really did, the easiest to prove is the manner of translation..."
"That doesn't matter. But you said you feel lied to? Why?"
...I try to speak...
"There are some things that just aren't important to know, like who cares if we find-out that George Washington had wooden teeth or Benjamin Franklin was sickly? Were you taught that in school?"
"No, but..."
"But it doesn't matter, does it."
"It's not that simple. There are things that are insignificant, like Georgie-boy's teeth, but what if I were to tell you something like the fact that Abraham Lincoln owned slaves and wasn't an abolitionist until it helped his political stance? Now isn't that interesting?"
"But it doesn't matter..."
"No! JS was a liar. He's a convict. He broke all the ten commandments, and you can ask his closest associates. Have you read the Nauvoo Expsitioner? No? Have you cared to look outside the church once to see if it was a lie? No?..."
"It doesn't matter..."

Critical thinking in the morg: "It doesn't matter."
I didn't scratch the surface with him, but he reacted exactly as I expected. He became very defensive, and he only hurt my 'testimony' even more.

And thank you all for your support and help during this hard time. My family has taken-it very well. So far I've only met about three people that have dared ask when I'll be leaving again. I'm sure that will increase tomorrow, but I'm steady on a course, and it's largely thanks to the wonderful people here. Thank you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2013 12:26AM by EddieMax.

Oh the logical fallacies...

On a related note, people used to ask me too when I was going back to the mission field. They stop. I just told people I wasn't. It would really shock a few as that is not the standard answer I suppose. I remember when they announced over the pulpit I had come home for "medical reasons" I wish I had gotten up there and told the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2013 03:32AM by nonsequiter.

What else can you say when you have been caught red handed and you have no other defense. The only thing you can say is "Hey its no big deal, it dosen't matter, just forget about it".

It doesn't matter = I can't defend the indefensible.

George Washington and Joey are historical people.
It's unimportant that George's teeth are wooden,
Therefore it is unimportant that Joey was a liar.

Nonsequitur indeed, nonsequiter.

What does TSCC stand for?

tx2step Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does TSCC stand for?

The So Called Church

Bishop:

"It's not fair to judge Joseph Smith by his fruits."


You:


"...uh...Come again?"

EddieMax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Critical thinking in the morg: "It doesn't matter."

The only thing that matters: it matters to you.

> He became very defensive,

Translation: he actually heard you.
You got through.
Bombs on target.

You are my Hero.

Consider this:
You stood up, on your own feet, alone, completely unshielded against the entire weight of this institution.
And you prevailed.
He was reduced to: "it doesn't matter."

The massive might and gravity of the entire institution was reduced to: "It Doesn't Matter."

Strong Work.
I Salute You.

+1

You kick ass!!!

"It doesn't matter"

"Well, it may not matter to you. But it matters very much to me."

Yes, living in your parents house means living by their rules. So get out of there as soon as you can and live a genuine life.

Adult Americans know the unsavory truth about our history, and it is taught everywhere, particularly in college. We know that much of this country was founded through subjugation. Every textbook has lengthy sections on slavery. Historians aim to paint a realistic picture of the past objectively, even when the truth hurts.

TSCC "hides in plain sight" those infinite holes in its truth claims. It intentionally keeps it's critical flaws, whitewashing, and lies away from ordinary members.

And so he asks "so what?" He failed to answer your question:

"Why does the church so blatantly whitewash it's history and cover up its scandals and lies?" That's the real question needs answerin'!

It is all they got - It doesn't matter. H___ yes it does!!! I am glad you called JS a convict who broke commandments time and time again. More people need to speak out like you. Congrats and I wish you well.

Stop going to meetings with local church leaders and do not allow yourself to get cornered by anyone, or pulled into side rooms for little chats.

You were a volunteer, you went on your own dime, and there is no reason for harassment.

By now you should realize that you can't reason with TBMs.

Besides, why bother. He told you it doesn't matter LOL

You are so brave! And strong in character! The bishop knows that or at least can sense that and you probably scared him. And just think, his "answers" are pretty much what they all have, that's their full deck. How wimpy and unappealing is that? It's an excellent thing for those who are questioning because all they need to know is the church is like a house of cards, so they should take heart that they have the upper hand and not doubt themselves like the leaders hope and pray they will.

Your post is powerful and will give strength to those who need it. Thanks for sharing and showing us that it is not an impossible situation. You may never know how many people you help to see the light. It may even be your family, this bishop, friends, etc. Job well done.

Eddie, you wouldn't by any chance have friends or family in md would you? Just curious as I just had an early thanksgiving with friends who happened to mention someone they knew returned early and asked to be called Eddie. Coincidence?

Did he get angry/defensive? I have found that in general but certainly not always, people that jump to a defense standpoint are still believers and the calm ones know most of the questionable history and either know they can't defend it or choose to ignore because it benefits their family/social/job.

Eddie, unless for some reason you need a temple recommend renewed, you don't need to attend any more meetings with the bishop, SP, etc. Just say, "no thank you" and go about your business. You don't owe anyone an explanation for what you believe or don't believe. These matters are best avoided because as you know, they will try their hardest to convince you that there are not any important problems, when you know for a fact that there are more than enough very important problems.

All of this happened to me, too. Multiple meetings, not answering my questions, telling me to "pray" about it, trying to make me read from the BoM to get the "feeling" that it's true, and finally having another convert come in and tell me I have "low standards".

A month later, my letter came from SLC telling me that my name has been removed and if should ever wish to rejoin, to just get rebaptized.

hence, my name... "sigh"