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Posted by: goat ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 03:23PM

I'm looking for suggestions on how to be free

I spent a few years secretly studying, in the last two years I unnoficially resigned. I stopped wearing G's, I stopped paying tithing and going to church. I read here every day and got agitated a lot. I was very much against any organized religion.

I realized that I was only getting more agitated by continuously reading things, so then I stopped. I stopped thinking about it and worrying about it.

My wife is still a member. We have young children with some recent additions. They have continued to go to church (I usually stay home with the babies). This was originally a very difficult time for us, my wife was very hurt. In the last two years she has changed her perspective a little, she doubts a few things now but doesn't want to let go of the church. She only goes half the time though now.

I've not tried to push things and cause arguments, and I think moving slow has been good, but now I feel like i'm in a rut. I feel a lack of spiritualit in my life. I haven't really had a lot of time to do anything (with work and family) so I haven't delved into any other form of religion or spirituality. I still object to large structures. I talk a lot with a good friend who is a strong catholic and he's pretty open to bouncing new ideas off of.

Now i'm not sure where to go. I've debated going back to the LDS church as a partial member to enjoy some of the benefits, e.g. a group relationship, common spiritual practices (mostly for combination with my personal and extended family) but to do that I would have to be settling and not persuing spirituality. It takes a lot of work to step into a new religion, and i'm afraid of that anyway because I'm tainted against group structures. I want to explore spirituality personally but then it gets lonely, so then I want a group but then it feels repressive (because of the LDS group structure) I also want to be with my family.

I've very much wanted to try alcohol, it was a big fight with my wife. I've gone slow because I wanted to bring her along. We reached an agreement and I can do it without feeling like I'm sneaking out, .. but it's pretty rare for me to get out away from the family to be able to do it.

I still feel restricted by my previous beliefs. I've tried to step back and reevaluate things. I tell myself I believe one thing but I still feel wierd if I grab a cup of coffee and people see me do it.

How much to I push and how much do I just try to live? I recently decided to bless my boys in the church structure. I wondered if it would cause great miscommunications with my in-laws because i've told them that I can't support the church. In my eye I was trying to use an ingrained spiritual structure for a family unit, to anybody else it seemed like I was coming back to church. I asked the bishop for permission and I told him that I don't support the church structure or the leaders, .. technically I have not been excommunicated so I still hold the priesthood and he let me do it. I phrased my words in the blessing such that it didn't mention the church ever. I still wonder if I should have done it, but I was exploring a "good" aspect of religion, and that is the family unity for a baby, so this brought in extended family. I still wonder if I should have used the church structure or not. I did it on an upwards cycle of my acceptance of any organized religions structure.

Anyway, how much do I start to push now? How do I overcome my ingrained restrictions?

It's pretty difficult to get time to post here so I probably won't check back until tomorrow. Thanks!

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Posted by: Brother Bacon Sandwich ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 10:08PM

Have you looked at a Unitarian Universalist congregation?

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Posted by: Ummm ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 10:14PM

Using Google translate? Just curious.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 10:16PM

Farenheit 451

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Posted by: zenjamin ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 10:53PM

Written from retrospect. Wish someone could have told me.

Optimize the inner.
The outer will follow.

Understanding problem reveals solution.

Mormania is a worthiness-based hierarchy.
This is why the intrusive questions – mission, school, work, divorce, home site, children, lineage: you are being judged and ranked.
Such a hierarchy produces a chattering judging mind that cannot be shut off. All experience is categorized and judged, squeezing the life from everything. When not judging, such a mind is re-living perpetual grudges and regrets, or dreaming a future than never comes. It is why the Mormon is lifeless, robotic, and miserable.
Look to your own experience when once trapped.

Religions that produce the same mind are little help.
Alcohol/drugs dull but don’t remedy.

The key is to learn how to shut the chattering mind off so that one may be in the now, and be fully attentive, fully alive.

Many routes there.
Remember a time when you were so totally engaged, that time stopped. Perhaps hours passed and you were shocked. This is a clue when we are totally attentive and present in the now.
If one is an athlete, say long-distance runner, start running.
If one is an artist, say a painter, start painting.
If long hikes in the wild promote it, start hiking. Or sailing. Or rock climbing. Or skateboarding. It does not matter the what. What matters is full total engagement.

Use this tool to learn to stop the chattering judging mind; to learn to be fully in the present, fully attentive (might google ‘living in the now’ or ‘present moment’ – many primers/books on this). As one learns to live totally in the now with a quiet attentive mind, the Universe unfolds.

All routes seem to go to the same place; there is not a “right” one.

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Posted by: flo, the nevermo ( )
Date: November 19, 2013 11:38PM

With regard to:

"I want to explore spirituality personally but then it gets lonely"

I humbly suggest that you disentangle those 2 things.
1) Explore what you need to on your own. Sounds like you need to find your own self. Take your time.
2) Meet your social needs in ways that are divorced from religion in every way. Make conscious decisions on how you would like to do this.

I suspect that doing the above may make a lot of your other issues clearer and more manageable. Good luck on your journey.

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Posted by: Testimonyman ( )
Date: November 20, 2013 12:21AM

Forgive me for being straightforward. Dude, grow a pair and b a man. Start being honest with yourself and your wife. You will b a shocked at the respect you receive. If u want a beer, drink a beer. Honesty is the best policy. Stop pretending. Your wife and kids will love u for being authentically you!!!! Stop pretending to be someone else. Liberate yourself. Express your freedom. I know you can imagine it! Do it!!! Set yourself free!!!! Enough of this tip toeing. You only make it harder on yourself. Explore whatever religion u want. Get excited about life. B yourself. Final thoughts... Stop fucking around. B a fucking man and b yourself and b honest. Trust me, you will b happy soon. Go for it!!!!

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