I tried to ease my wife into the discussion about the research that I am doing. She wanted more details, which I shared about the BoM and the King James version errors that appear in both. I discussed the book of Abraham and a couple of other things. It was at this point that she shut the conversation down and didn't want to discuss it anymore. we took a break from discussion for several weeks and then I found out that she wrote a letter to the President Monson. Not sure what it said, but President Monson replied and sent it to our Stake President. The SP pulled my wife in and discussed the Prophets response among other things. I don't know the details of the conversation. The SP reassured my wife that it won't go any further, but I know better. I served in a Bishopric and I know that the SP told my Bishop. It makes sense to me now why I haven't received a calling. Basically I am most likely going to be looked at as a project now. Fortunately our ward is splitting the first part of the year. My wife is not happy with me. I asked her if she would like to study with me but she declined, but she is also frustrated that she doesn't know what is going on with my studies. I can't win. I feel like all of these years I have been married to the BoM. The love she offers seems to be conditional based on my willingness to blindly follow and do everything we are told by the brethren.

It's sickening to me they would meet with your wife without you being involved so you can defend yourself. Freakin' cult. Luckily my wife was open-minded to my research and was as quick to leave as I was. Good luck...so many relationships are hindered or ruined because the spouse puts the church above love and truth.

This is terrible.

Their being novices is most critically damaging in just these circumstances.
They act in willful ignorance and split a couple.
Church leadership is a sow rolling over onto her piglets.

Any anger at these inspired bozos is most justified.

I feel for you.

She runs to higher authorities for answers. She trusts them to tell her what to do. It bothers me that she trusts Monson (sheesh!) more than you, her husband. It bothers me more that she met with the SP without you.

I wonder if she can imagine how she would feel if you went to other women to let them know everything she discusses with you. How would she like it if you went over her head like she did to you? You should be pissed she finked on you to her more alpha male, the prophet.

I realize she is frightened. Her secure little bubble is being threatened and she only knows to do what they taught her to do.

It sounds to me like you need to make a plan. If you follow their little rules, you will enforce their authority over your wife. The SP has no business meddling in your life. Your wife needs to decide if you are second in her life or first.

That said, maybe you can ssslllloooowww things down and concentrate more on the relationship. Prove to her that your love for her is unconditional, unlike hers for you. Do things with her and for her. Maybe you can drop discussing the church stuff with her. Maybe you can refuse to be a project. Now that you know she will go behind your back for help, don't give her any more information or answers. Let her know you are very disappointed and will not subject yourself to that kind of behavior from her. Let her know it is a matter of respect for each other.

Mormonism is conditional, that's for sure. It is not the "family church" but rather the family hostage church that makes everyone play along or else.

If she wants to know the truth about the church, it is there for anyone who wants to check the facts. Maybe someday she will figure out she can study by herself instead of running to church leaders.

You must do what works best for you and your situation. My husband waited 10 years for me to figure it out. He sort of played along because he decided it was important to me. He said he loved me enough that it didn't matter. He encouraged me to learn and I trusted his opinions on things. I hope you can stand up to the SP (as in mind your own business, buddy) and find ways assure your wife she doesn't need to be fearful.

Good luck.

In the past, I was in the same position as you with regards to my DW (Dear Wife). Maybe the only difference is that I've been an inactive member for several decades now. The Bishop and SP know and understand this, and we have an "understanding", of sorts.

DW is a somewhat waffling TBM these days. She's interested in what I know but quickly becomes frightened when she hears the details and it starts clicking into place in her mind. At that point, she'll ask me to stop talking about it. This has been going on for several years now. I am determined to have the patients of a glacier and will continue to spoon-feed her for however long it takes.

Like your wife, mine has also been "called in" for meetings with the Bishop and SP (about me). Just recently "I" called the SP in for a meeting! As kindly as I could (this time, the first time), I cautioned him to be very careful... let me repeat... Very Careful(!) what he discusses with my wife as concerns our (wife and I) relationship and anything that might undermine the same. Putting him on notice has created the desired affect, at least for the time being.

So where am I going with this? If you are the man of the house and family, then man up! Don't be afraid of their leadership penis-hood attitude (which is all pretend comic-book fantasy anyways). Put them on notice and let them know what the rules are.

Hope there's something here that can help you. Good Luck! ;)

In most states, it is against the law for a third party to alienate one spouse from another. Usually, the line is drawn against a sexual interloper, but it is time that Utahns shifted the emphasis in court to alienation by clergy or other authority figure.

Perhaps you can let this bishop know that if he meddles in your marriage to your detriment, you will sue him civilly for alienation and marital breakup. Make the creeps pay!

LDSInc. claims to honor the priesthood of the father or patriarch in the home and family, above that authority given to church leaders. But they lie...

Checker and hello,
Excellent ideas.

In their ignorance these have not even considered a higher authority --- legal jeopardy.

Would be an awakening.

Dodge, suggest keep extensive notes/documentation sufficient to build a case - just in case.

Well, I actually don't live in the USA. But locally we do have such laws that might cover this. Hopefully the SP got the subliminal inference from my message. ;)

No doubt SP got the message.
Point-blank man-to-man these have little courage.

I am SO sorry you are in this position. It is unthinkable that tscc is interfering with your marriage and you are being made out to be the 'baddie'. I agree it is time to put the SP and BISHOP on notice that you will NOT put up with any interference, and also your wife. As lovingly as possible tell her that you do NOT appreciate what has been happening, that you see it as total disloyalty to you and your marriage, and then go all out to show her you love her.

I am no expert but I have faced the breakup of a marriage with tscc all intertwined with it. I went to tscc leaders for a preisthood blessing to get through the challenges I knew lay ahead. I was told to be a 'helpmeet' to my husband. That was one of the big things that led me out of tscc, because my husband was already abusive and became more and more so outside tscc where he had no control. I should have been told to 'take your children and go', instead I have had to live with the consequences of staying too long in an abusive marriage, aided by the abuse of power of tscc.

YOur situation is different again, and I can only synpathise with your situation. I hope my story helps a little in some way.


Good luck, I wish you all the very best!

You could ask your wife how she'd feel if you went to the RS President and talked about her.

Of course she will probably say she wouldn't because women don't have the authority/priesthood and that is how she'll rationalize that going to Monson and the SP was the only place she could go.

She is probably also frightened because another fear teaching of the church is that asking questions and doubting the church means you are heading down the road to apostasy and being under the influence of the adversary. Also the fear of not spending eternity with you. The church has a way of making us believe that if one in the relationship doesn't believe in the church that means they don't love you. Crazy I know but that's what happens.

It won't be be easy but go slow and have patience. I knew for a long time that my husband wasn't a true believer but I was so afraid to look at anything that might be negative about the church. Oh there were all kinds of things I wondered about and didn't like about the church but was too afraid to give it serious thought and consideration. Fortunately DH loved me more than the church and was willing to wait. He always went to church, the "whole nine yards" because to him our relationship was more important to him than the church.

He was patient and would tell me things that he knew would make me think and he waited and waited and waited. I had so much cognitive dissonance but was afraid to make the break from the church. He just kept loving me and didn't purposely "rock the church boat." Little by little the cracks were widening. It took me nine years to finally say, "Enough" and then we walked away together. I have apologized for making him wait so long :-) He just smiles and reminds me how much he loved me and still does.

No, it isn't easy but if you can be patient and keep loving her and talking to her in a way that she doesn't feel threatened she may indeed realize your relationship together is way more valuable to her than her belief in the mormon church.

Good luck to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2013 01:57AM by Helen.

This is the sweetest "exmo" story. Your husband must be a very patient man. I can't even imagine attending and being a non-believer. I'm glad that you both finally left together.

Perhaps telling your wife that it wasn't so much that she was talking to the church, but that she didn't include you so that you could have done the talking together. Remind her lovingly that a marriage is about communicating and including one another in important decisions that need to be looked at together.

Dodgeawrench - wait a second. Your wife wrote a letter to Monson. Monson sent it to the SP. The SP spoke to your wife about it. You think the SP told the Bishop.
You either aren't telling us everything or perhaps you are reading between the lines in a situation where we of course can't.
To me, this sounds like (it is possible, just possible) that during those several weeks that passed after you and your wife discussed some of the research you did, perhaps your wife was doing some of her own investigating. The letter to Monson may have been about the doubts your wife has. It might not have been about your doubts at all. It may have been about both your and her doubts.
You may have got a spark going within her that set her on a course of study herself.
Unless you are sure that the letter was about your doubts only and that your wife is somehow against you on this, I would come out and ask her about the letter. See if she has her own doubts.
I am not beating you up about this and I hope I don't sound like a nag, but you admitted yourself that you don't know much about the letter. I sounds like you know where it has been going, but not its contents.
Before going further, find out by asking you wife what it is about. Keep us posted on this.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am highly confident that my wife hasn't been doing any research on her own. My initial discussion with her spooked her and she sent the letter. I have clearly let her know that I am not ready to leave the church yet, that I have a questioning mind, and that I am simply in the research stage. She doesn't understand this as she has always been one of very simple faith. If she would have been born Catholic, she would be a devout Catholic or any other religion. She was just born Mormon and as such the rule of the 1st is the most true applies with her.

I have a story similar to Helen's, except it was my son that was the patient one. He waited two years before I could even begin to question. I would not even look at his college textbook, "The Final Superstition:A critical evaluation of the Judeo Christian Legacy". We would discuss matters involving the church every weekend when he returned from college to visit us. He just could not get through to me. He was patient, kind, loving and tried mightily to get through that thick wall of cult programming. In the end, I read a book by Martha Beck, "Leaving the Saints" that so resonated with me without preaching, but spoke with just a quiet surety that she knew the B of A was a fraud and included all the facts. She mentioned rfm I believe too in the book and it all fell away instantly. I wish it could work that way for everyone and much faster. I wish there was a magic way to deprogram people involved in cults. Read up on that and you might find some useful info there. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I still cannot get my sister or some lifelong friends to see the fraud. It is maddening, but one day...
I wish you all the luck in the world. I finally convinced my husband and other children of the fraud, patience and love were key.Best to you!

Your wife may not realize it but she is getting screwed over bigtime by the morg.

Monson did not "respond" to her.

What his office did is standard behavior when someone writes to church headquarters - the letter gets cannonballed back to local authorities who then call in the writer for counseling.

In other words, the First Presidency does not want to be bothered with your problems.

Your wife is still naively believing in a caring prophet and a true church.
Poor soul, she does not yet realize the depth of deception the Mormon church perpetrates on its members.

This is my life. I'm so sorry to read about all these other very similar situations. :(

TSCC continually reminds people of being a "Christian church". Yet this is not at all what Jesus taught. The Bible is rife with quotes about love that TSCC (through its teachings) does not abide by at all. It seems that whenever a spouse "goes bad" (stops paying the tithe, questions the dogma, etc.) he or she is no longer a "spouse" from the point of view of the person who abides by the teachings of TSCC, at least to the extent that he or she should be given any respect, or often, love. Instead, at that point the conforming party's survival instinct kicks in: "Oh NO! Now I won't be saved.. unless I force my spouse to conformity!"

Just like dodgeawrench mentioned, just a hint toward research that would bring up points that would point to the flaws of TSCC, or "exmormon.org" in the browser history is often enough to set off an explosion. "YOU'VE BEEN READING ANTI-MORMON LITERATURE!!" If TSCC were a real deal, it could withstand any anti-literature, and discussion of any anti-thesis would even be welcomed. But TSCC is aware of the "holes in the story", so to speak, and so any access to sites like this is seriously frowned upon, and "perpetrators" punished through their conforming spouse (intimacy goes first...). But while you can change your behaviour (pretend to go along), it is very difficult if not impossible to believe in something you have found to be a fraud. If you pretend to along it gnaws at your integrity, your soul. And so there doesn't seem to be any place to go in a relationship if the conforming party doesn't budge.

I hope you will find a way. It very much depends on the people involved (level of indoctrination, level of loyalty, etc.) which is different in every situation. If I had to guess whether I will be married to my wife in ten years time, I wouldn't give very favorable odds to it. But I suppose anything can happen.

Thank you for your reply. I have been speaking to her specifically about working on our relationship. We have always had a good one. I think she does agree that I have loved her unconditionally throughout our marriage. If she wanted to be Atheist, I would love her for it. It doesn't matter to me. I am hoping that she will understand that the influence of all of her friends that have husbands that are seminary teachers has been really strong. She has created an ideal in her mind and when I fall short, her love becomes conditional. I am open to allowing her to take as long as she needs on this one. In the end my thoughts about the eternities has never been around being with God, I always had plans on being with her and as such I wanted to make sure that my relationship with her was my focus.

All I can say is she is lucky to have a husband like you. VERY LUCKY! I hope she comes to realize it.