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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 11:41AM

I know it's petty to argue about caffeine with an uber-TBM but I felt that I needed to let my father know that he needs to lighten up.

The short story is my dad expressed his disapproval of me drinking coke at a family dinner this past week, he chose to embarrass me in front of over 20 people.

I sent him an email afterward saying that I didn't appreciate him embarrassing me and I stated that the handbooks and the latest statements from the church do not condemn caffeine.

This was his response:

HYT,

I'm sorry that you thought it was chiding when I was expressing concern for your eternal soul.

Yes, the brethren do not include cola drinks and the use of caffeine in the Word of Wisdom, but as D&C 58:26 says, "For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant: wherefore he receiveth no reward."

The following are statements from the brethren about cola drinks and caffeine.

“Policies and Procedures,” New Era, May 1972, 50

Cola Drinks and the Word of Wisdom

“The Word of Wisdom, section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants, [D&C 89] remains as to terms and specifications as found in that section. There has been no official interpretation of that Word of Wisdom except that which was given by the Brethren in the very early days of the Church when it was declared that ‘hot drinks’ meant tea and coffee.

“With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on this matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided.”

* * * * * * * * * *

Vaughn J. Featherstone, “A Self-Inflicted Purging,” Ensign, May 1975, 66

….I was over in England a while back and a bishop asked me, “What is the Church’s stand on cola drinks?” I said, “Well, I can’t remember the exact wording of the bulletin, but I remember seeing the bulletin when I was a stake president. The Church, of course, advises against them.”

He said, “Well, I have read the Priesthood Bulletin, but that isn’t what it says to me.”

And I said, “Would you get your Priesthood Bulletin? Let’s read it together.” And so we found under the heading “Cola Drinks”: “… the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs. …” (The Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4.)

He said, “Well, you see, that doesn’t mean cola.”

I said, “Well, I guess you will have to come to your own grips with that, but to me, there is no question.” You see, there can’t be the slightest particle of rebellion, and in him there is. We can find loopholes in a lot of things if we want to bend the rules of the Church.

* * * * * * * * * *

###################

Apparently my dad still lives in 1972. This was my response back to him, he has not yet responded to me and I don't think he will.

###################

Dad,

If the consumption of caffeinated drinks was that important to the eternal soul, the statements of required abstinence would be much more prominent than something that was said over 40 years ago.

It is said that the only constant is change, and it is no different with the church and its policies and procedures, and even sometimes doctrine. We learned this with the recent addition of the Race and the Priesthood gospel topic on LDS.org. Past leaders from Brigham Young all the way to Spencer Kimball made statements about the station of humans of African descent in the pre-mortal existence, this life, and in the life to come. These statements were accepted as policy, procedure, and doctrine by these men. This is how the church feels about those statements today:

“Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a pre-mortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else.”

My point is that the policies and procedures of the church change over time, here are some examples: abandonment of polygamy in 1890, the switch from wine to water for the sacrament in 1906, the inclusion of the Word of Wisdom as a temple recommend requirement in 1915, allowing men of African descent to hold the priesthood in 1978, and the removal of the death oaths and penalties from the endowment ceremony in 1990.

The Brethren have moved on from those statements made in 1972. Consumption of cola drinks is not a sin, it does not constitute rebellion, and consumption of such drinks does not exclude anyone from entering the temple or, by extension, the Celestial kingdom. To quote Gordon B. Hinkley, “it is behind us.”

Your contempt for caffeinated drinks and those that consume them is no different than the attitude of the Pharisees and Sadducees of old; men that constantly “looked beyond the mark”. They were so concerned with trivial matters that they missed the core of the gospel that Jesus taught: love, compassion, service, genuine interest, acceptance, and tolerance. All of these elements were completely absent throughout my childhood, adolescence, and even to this day. Mainly, as I believe, you were looking, and continue to look beyond the mark.

My advice to you is this, the next time you are tempted to pass judgement, remember the words of the Savior, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Sincerely,

HYT

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Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 11:48AM

Amen, HYT. And very courageous. I could not have written such a letter to my father.

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Posted by: ness ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 11:51AM

Does your dad eat chocolate?
Caffeine

Does he have Niquil when he's sick?
Alcohol

Does he eat sugar?
Addictive substances

Eat meat more than "sparingly?"
Breaking the WoW


3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.



I won't forget the looks I got when I was drinking a healthy green tea. TBMs were feasting on meat, potatoes, soda, and having lots of seconds on dessert... but green tea is breaking the word of "wisdom."

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Posted by: shiftfocus ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:08PM

Such a great post. I need to send this to my MIL

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:14PM

Should not be commanded in all things? Then make up your own things he should not be commanded to do.

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Posted by: MexMom ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:15PM

Great post! Great letter!!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:18PM

Archive this one. Happy Caffeinated New Year!

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Posted by: vh65 ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:23PM

Very nicely done. Is the quote you included on racism from LDS.org? You've pointed out many important changes in "eternal" doctrines in a way that shows you are intelligent and well read on LDS history.

I attended a local Christian church service on Christmas Eve and the pastor made a statement that really appealed to me:

"Our faith community has decided to focus on supporting the people, not enforcing rules. We find it works better."

The contrast to the LDS church couldn't have been more stark, as illustrated by your story.

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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:31PM

vh65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is the quote you included on racism from LDS.org?

Yes, you can find it here:

http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:33PM

KJV reads (regarding woman taken in adultery); Jesus says:

"He that is without sin among you, let him FIRST CAST A STONE AT HER" (emphasis added).


Mormons are hog-tied to Dogma instead of Values; No Surprise there, 'eh?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 12:53PM by guynoirprivateeye.

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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:45PM

guynoirprivateeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KJV reads (regarding woman taken in adultery);
> Jesus says:
>
> "He that is without sin among you, let him FIRST
> CAST A STONE AT HER" (emphasis added).
>
>
> Mormons are hod-tied to Dogma instead of Values;
> No Surprise there, 'eh?

I was paraphrasing ;)

But you are correct, they get busy worrying about needless things.

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Posted by: JelloJubilee ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:37PM

Your response was spot on!


From the WOW

"And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint."

I think that a foot race ought to be part of the temple recommend process.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:46PM

Great idea! There needs to be a PT test for a TR in Mormonism.

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Posted by: Paidinfull ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:46PM

Actually the active chemical in chocolate is theobromine. It's a methyl xanthine as are caffeine &, horrors!, nicotine. The three work in the brain the same. So if tobacco, coffee, tea and Pepsi are rebellious, chocolate & cocoa can threaten your immortal, too.

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Posted by: !!! ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:51PM

I wonder if your father is worried about Thomas Monson's eternal soul given his publicly recognized fondness for Pepsi products.

There was also the BYU statement that the reason they don't offer caffeinated beverages is not church doctrine but the fact that there simply isn't any demand on campus.

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Posted by: MarkJ ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:24PM

I recall members who would not eat chocolate or ham, and would mention that they knew some GA or other who also did not eat such terrible things because they were living to a "higher law."

Public displays of behavior establish rank in the pecking order. And besides being more visible, keeping score this way is just easier than actually being loving,forgiving, charitable, etc.

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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:41PM

MarkJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Public displays of behavior establish rank in the
> pecking order. And besides being more visible,
> keeping score this way is just easier than
> actually being loving,forgiving, charitable, etc.

I couldn't agree more. They don't live a higher law for themselves, they do it for show. At least this is the case with my parents.

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Posted by: Facing Tao ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:35PM

In a TR interview people are asked if they've kept WoW, namely, not drank coffee or tea (including the superfood green tea). But there is never a specific question about having eaten meat sparingly. Enforcing such rule would make the church hugely unpopular as for many TBMs "eating meat sparingly" means that they don't eat meat one day a week, or that they don't eat meat on one of their three daily meals.

Sodas aren't particularly good for you, but it's not because of the caffeine but because of the phosphoric acid most soft drinks contain. That is entirely disconnected from the "hot drinks" where the only connection to sodas is the caffeine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 02:37PM by Facing Tao.

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Posted by: ICEMAN ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:39PM

Hold Your Tapirs,

Try sending this verse to your Dad (spoken by Jesus):


"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

Mark 7:15 (KJV)

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Posted by: Facing Tao ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:15PM

Hehe.. "Hold your tapirs!". Awesome! :D

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Posted by: hausfrau ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:02PM

That's a terrible letter your dad sent. He didn't own up and apologize directly for what he said. And then to lecture his grown child?! Your response was well written- good for you.

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Posted by: wastedtime ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:27PM

Wow! No offense, but your dad is far worse than even "my" obnoxious in-laws. With his attitude, I must assume he has washboard abs, perfect blood pressure, and no health problems whatsoever.

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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:45PM

wastedtime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! No offense, but your dad is far worse than
> even "my" obnoxious in-laws. With his attitude, I
> must assume he has washboard abs, perfect blood
> pressure, and no health problems whatsoever.

Quite the opposite on all points. He is very overweight, has high blood pressure, and several other health issues.

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Posted by: pathfinder ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:48PM

Loved your response. Not mean or rude, just the facts. Not anti-Mormon or hate, just the facts.

Hard to argue with that.

Very good.

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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 07:19PM

Thanks.

My parents still don't know about my apostasy. I didn't think it would be fair to them or my visiting siblings to drop that bomb during their christmas visit.

I felt that it would best to fight this battle on TBM grounds. If I told them I no longer believed, he would just dismiss me as a common infidel.

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Posted by: elee ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 03:54PM

I love your response, HYT. Your father is a Pharisee.

Were it me, though, I think I would have been far more offended by his public shaming of you. The caffeine issue is just the vehicle. His need to control you through embarrassing you is a much bigger issue.

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 04:12PM

FWIW, I have family that are very close to several apostles, and some of them drink Coke/Pepsi religiously.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 06:45PM

I like you, tapir, I really, really do. Articulate, smart and brave.

BTW, if you aren't supposed to be commanded in all things, why was he commanding you about a little thing such as what you drink?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 06:45PM by CA girl.

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Posted by: Hold Your Tapirs ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 07:32PM

CA girl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, if you aren't supposed to be commanded in all
> things, why was he commanding you about a little
> thing such as what you drink?

Thanks! I like you too.

It's all about control, always has been. He hates it when someone has a different opinion or belief than him, because, to him, he is always right.

I'm one of seven and no one has ever really stood up to him. I'm nearly 40 years old and he still treats me and my siblings like children. I don't have to put up with it that often because I don't see my parents much at all, out of choice. But I just felt that I couldn't let it slide this time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 07:33PM by Hold Your Tapirs.

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Posted by: bordergirl ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 06:52PM

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Your father is expressing his concern for your eternal soul because of the caffeine in cola (or in anything else, for that matter)? If you are a person of at least normal intelligence (and you must be ;-)) , one must assume your father is also of normal intelligence. But ZERO common sense or sense of proportionality or perspective. It shouldn't surprise me when I read things like this, but it does.

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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 07:03PM

Funeral Potatoes. Unhealthy and LDS love to eat them along with chocolate cake and tons of other unhealthy potentially 'addicting' things. Do I care if they eat them? Nope. But to single out a few so called addicting foods/habits while Mormonism itself for many LDS is close to an addiction is just silly and shows complete lack of awareness.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 07:25PM

I have to laugh because not all cola has caffeine. It's added in during processing. There are some brands of handcrafted brewed soft drinks where they do not add caffeine to their cola or Dr. Pepper-taste-alike.

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