I know TSCC claims there was no death before Adam and Eve. Any sensible person realized this is just plain stupid. But where do I find this teaching at?

2 Nephi 2:22

http://bookofmormononline.net/#/commentary/4944

http://history-world.org/sumeria.htm
Study this site and your answers will be obvious.

See the LDS Bible Dictionary under "Death" (last paragraph):
"Latter-day revelation teaches that there was no death on this earth before the Fall of Adam. Indeed, death entered the world as a direct result of the Fall"
Show them right in their scriptures!

And THAT is how we know that fossils are the remains of dead animals that came from other planets as part of the Creation.

I would be scared to death living on the planet with the dinosaurs. Were the people on that planet bad in the preexistence?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2013 11:04AM by 48erhater.

This is contradicted by the new Endowment film. In the part
showing the creation of the earth, the earth is seen in a molten
state and gradually cools. Now this would destroy any fossils
from any previous earths.

But there's a similar problem in at least one of the temple films from bygone days. According to "Mormon America," (and my personal recollection, as well) one version of the temple ceremony film "included 350 feet from Disney's 'Fantasia' to provide lava for the creation episode." So an early molten earth has been represented in the temple for at least a few decades.

(Ostling, Richard N. and Joan K. Ostling, "Mormon America: The Power and the Promise," p. 199 [HarperCollins Publishers, New York, 2007])


Also, I recall the depiction in a temple film of the earth "accreting" (accumulating, coalescing) from what appeared to be a whirl of gas and dust, which is essentially the mainstream scientific view of how the earth initially formed ... and which would preclude the inclusion of any intact fossils in the newly formed planet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 12:08AM by Fetal Deity.

"Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained how all things were connected to the Fall of Adam: 'Then comes the Fall; Adam falls; mortality and procreation and death commence. Fallen man is mortal; he has mortal flesh; he is "the first flesh upon the earth." And the effects of his fall pass upon all created things. They fall in that they too become mortal. Death enters the world; mortality reigns; procreation commences; and the Lord’s great and eternal purposes roll onward' ('Christ and the Creation,' Ensign, June 1982, 14).

“'Mortality and procreation and death all had their beginnings with the Fall. …

“'… An infinite Creator, in the primeval day, made the earth and man and all forms of life in such a state that they could fall. This fall involved a change of status. All things were so created that they could fall or change. …

“'… In the primeval and Edenic day all forms of life lived in a higher state than now prevails. … Death and procreation had yet to enter the world' (Ensign, June 1982, 9)."

http://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-7-2-nephi-1-3?lang=eng




"...[T]he fall of Adam ... ushered death into this world ...."

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/04/because-i-live-ye-shall-live-also?lang=eng




"Mortality and death came into the world through the Fall of Adam."

http://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-teacher-manual/chapter-7-2-nephi-1-3?lang=eng




"Before the Fall: 1. No physical death; Adam and Eve would have lived forever (see 2 Nephi 2:22).

"After the Fall: 1. All things became mortal and could die physically (see 2 Nephi 9:6)."

https://www.lds.org/manual/old-testament-teacher-resource-manual/-genesis-3-moses-4




"True believers know that this earth and man and all forms of life were created in an Edenic, or paradisiacal, state in which there was no mortality, no procreation, no death.
...
"By his fall, Adam introduced temporal and spiritual death into the world and caused this earth life to become a probationary estate."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1984/10/the-caravan-moves-on?lang=eng




“'There was no death in the earth before the fall of Adam. …

“'... In regard to the pre-mortal condition of Adam and the entire earth, Lehi has stated the following:

“‘"And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end" [2 Nephi 2:22]' (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:108–9)."

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/chapter-30-death-and-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng




" ... [P]hysical death, known also as temporal death, was introduced into the world as a consequence of the Fall. As a result of the Fall, all people and all forms of life upon the earth must suffer a physical death, a separation of spirit and body."

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=664ea41f6cc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=ba805f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Some apologists now argue that Adam and Eve weren't the first man and woman on earth, but the first with "god-breathed souls". Others came and went before the fall 6,000 years ago, but they weren't spirit children of heavenly father...not sure what they were...zombies? In any case, this theory that Adam and Eve spent billions of years in the garden before the fall still doesn't make any sense...it directly contradicts these quotes.

Mormon apologists simply ignore any evidence that doesn't comport to their preconceived conclusion that the Mormon church is true. Whatever mental gymnastics and self-delusion it takes for them to justify their beliefs are never too much. Any rational mind that studies science and understands official Mormon teachings can come to only rational conclusion: the Mormon church's claims are a big, ol' crock of poo.

and I guess those of us who don't really believe in Adam and Eve are really screwed........

I don't get this conversation either. There was no Adam.

The real problem, in this case, with the mythical characters, Adam and Eve, is that the Mormon church teaches that their "fall" happened less than 6,000 years ago, before which, Mormonism claims, there was no death for any form of life on earth. Science long ago obliterated that assumption but the Mormon church still keeps teaching it.

This is the issue that was the catalyst for "anointedone" to begin the research that led him out of the church. As I recall, he corresponded with Smithsonian to verify.

D&C 77: 6-7

6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

But ... but ... but what about plants and animals ?

No death ?

Enquiring minds like mine want to know.

Here's the answer: It's all BS. There wasn't an Adam. We evolved.

If Adam and Eve story is mythical and didn't happen the way it is described then wouldn't it also be true that was no fall? There wasn't a need for a Saviour / Jesus Christ figure to help man conquer death an be resurected becaues in essence sin is mythical too. Man is not in a fallen state becaue the whole story is fabricated?

Is that line of thinking reasonable? You might as well just accept and believe in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ?


Spaghetti Monster -- https://www.google.com/#q=flying+spaghetti+monster

Because the Spaghetti monster is just as good as a God sitting on the throne in the clouds. Humans pray to him but noone is answering your damn prayers. Any miracle is just some rational event that could be explained, may be difficult but entirely possible.

Adam ate plants. That killed the plants. Which brings up a question did Adam chit in the woods?

So God is the inventor of built-in obsolescence?

Well, maybe a little death...