Mormons seem to get all riled up if one even suggest that Smith had sex with any of his wives except Emma.
Why?
Brigham had 50 wives and had sex with most of them (50 some offspring) and Mormons have no problem with Brig or Taylor or Woodruff or Grant having marital relations with their harem
Why keep Joseph squeaky clean but not the others?

A related problem for me is D&C 132:63 where-in the ONLY reason given for polygamy was to "multiply and replenish".
If Smith married 30 other women and DID NOT have sex with them, wouldn't he have been in violation of God's supposed will in the matter?
Anyone else see a problem with this?

Polygamy was nothing more than Pioneer Pornography

JS was the Larry Flint of Nauvoo

Right!
And both Flint and Smith were shot...if I remember correctly.

How ironic you bring up Larry Flint.

Polygamist Ervil LeBaron was once considered the number 1 suspect in the shooting of Larry Flint back in the day:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,977292,977390

Back in the day, they were proud of JS's multiple marriages and maybe-offspring.

My, how times have changed!

Given the fact that a fair number of the wives testified that he had sex with them, there were plenty of other witnesses who observed him having "overnighters" with this wife or that, and even more who heard his remarks about his sexual trysts (and sometimes the "trouble" they caused the women!), it's nonsensical to claim the marriages were sexless.

What's really amazing is that all this evidence exists despite the secrecy and protective measures taken by the participants and co-conspirators. If they had been open about it, imagine how much more documentation we'd have now. Nobody would be able to deny that JS was banging all those women.

There's an idea for a book!

.......1-800-DR-BENNETT..........

BY married women who already had a few children adding up to over 50, but he was the biological father of 41.

The cult has managed to bambozzle members, or is it the members want to be bambozzled, about Joseph Smith and his 34 wives. First of all, many members still do no know that he married these numerous wives. And then, if they happen to be told he did have some extra wives, well, in no way do they believe he slept in the same bed with them. Golly gee no, the wonderful kind founding prophet would just have been "above" that sort of behavior.

After all, Joe's life and leg were saved miraculously by the Lord so he could fulfill his destiny of bringing the one true gospel to the earth. Satan is winning when people say he had sex with anyone other than Emma, or that he lied, or cheated, or swindled the widows or....... God's wholesome prophet would not have done such things.

A perfect picture of the members are the three monkeys with the hands covering the eyes, ears and mouth.

On several different posts (here at RFM).

He's also written about possible offspring of JS with other women.

If you're interested, I suggest you look them up. They're well researched / documented / footnoted.

Occams Razor applies for me with Joseph Smith and his relationships with other women. All evidence would indicate that he was actively boinking the same. That is the simplest, and most concise, explanation.

It's ironic that a church that (today) is so stern and demanding about the nature of marriage and "appropriate" sexual activity, was actually started by a bunch of self-important sexual predators who used "fake marriages" to have sex with as many women as possible.

"Real" church history would be the stuff of an XXX-rated movie!

That's the only reason that I hope there's a heaven where all truth becomes public - I would love to see all those TBM's watching the orgies of their heroic founders.

Well, technically it's accurate so long as "sex" does not equal "sexual intercourse." I mean, sure, if you're being technical, he did have sex because of the sexual intercourse that was happening. Emma even caught him at it. Still, narrowly defined, maybe, uhh... You know. It's not sex. Or something. I'm sure that, with a good lawyer, you could get somewhere here.

Ask an apostle. He's the Lord's servant. He'll know for sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2014 06:27PM by cludgie.

I wonder if what TBM apologists are really defending is JS's own insistence that he wasn't polygamous. Subsequent presidents were more honest about it.

No, more like: "The Lord often works through people who are fallible."

That was a lot of fallibility, though. Why couldn't the Lord work through, say, some of the contemporaries who saw through JS and his poor character? One would think that working through a [very] fallible person would make it more difficult for the message to be taken seriously. It is so easy to show the significant character flaws of JS, and how he got the ball rolling on the scam. Others just ran with it after JS was killed. "Wow... a harem & money up for grabs!"

here's a dumb question. If JS was really having sex with all of them (which I do believe he did) and there were offspring (which there had to be at least a few) why wasn't that reported if back then polygamy was "ok." Or was it before the cusp of it being not okay/okay. I would think he'd be shouting from the rooftops that he was multiplying. But I haven't researched this aspect much so just wondering.

It was super top secrecy when he was alive. The church denied they were practicing it until after they moved to Utah. Only a few of Joseph's close buddies were "practicing the principle." Most of the members didn't even know about it while Smith was alive. It's why he had the printing press destroyed because some disaffected members learned about it and were going to expose him.

thank-you!

... he indeed would have been violating the Mormon God's laws, as you have shown from the D&C, and as also is found in the BoM:

"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people [to practice polygamy]; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [practice monogamy]. (Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:30)

I think some Mormons try to deny JS had sex with his polygamous wives because they know that some of them were already married and still others were underage.

Yes, FD.
I think you're right. That might also explain why Joseph was so upset with William Law and his Newspaper expose'.
It might also explain the real meaning behind the LDS phrase "milk before meat" (pun intended).

Thanks, everyone.
See. This is why I love RFM. You can not only get good info but at the same time get good humor and entertainment...something, fer sure not found in great abundance at LDS.ORG of FAIRLDS--except for some occasional, unintended comedic value.

schlock.
Thanks. I will check out Benson's earlier contributions.
Good stuff!

According to mormon doctrine there's nothing wrong with having sex with someone you're married to, so Joseph was doing nothing wrong from that aspect. However, I think some mormons today know that Joseph Smith's behaviour isn't very socially accepted today, and makes him (and therefore the church as a whole) look weird.

On a related note, it's not actually proven that Joseph Smith had sex with ALL his wives. I'm sure he had sex with most of them, but historically speaking, it seems he hardly knew or spoke to some of his wives, so I can find it believable that at least ONE of his wives he didn't have a sexual relationship with. 30-something wives is a lot more than it seems!

Joseph wasn't married to Fanny Alger when Emma caught them in the barn. There were plenty of people that had problems with that one. Not to mention what he was doing later. William Law had a major problem with JS antics.

Yes, I know about Fanny Alger. I'm talking about all of his wives though. We don't know 100% sure that he had sex with every single one. I'm sure he had sex with most of them (why wouldn't he?), but we can't guarantee anything in this area.

When a morgbot mentions that JS's marriages did not include sex
ask them to name ONE of his plural wives who stated he did not
haves sex with her--just one.

Good one, baura!
Gonna write that one down...

baura, that is so simple and yet so brilliant. Dang, I wish I had thought of that response! You have an interesting mind.

Joseph and his sexless marriages = one very large oxymoron