While this topic comes up at times on RfM, it's a good one to revisit for newbies and lurkers.

I had a friend contact me tonight because the church has "found them."

He wasn't sure how this happened. Suddenly, ward mission leaders and the missionaries knew where he was. He was curious as if a family member of his has "given up" his information.

I informed him that while the church utilizes family members at times to find "less actives," they don't always have to. When I lived in California, the church knew when I moved before I had ever given my new information out to anyone.

I moved right around the same time that I resigned. My resignation information came to the "new" address without ever being forwarded. This "new" address had NEVER been given out to ANYONE.

The church knew I moved as soon as I did, and before my family members had my address.

I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly how the church does this, but I've talked to enough creditors and former P.I.s to know that certain records are public and contain partial information. If you know other information - you can piece together where someone lives even if they don't have a phone number and address listed anywhere.

The church has at least one department devoted to knowing where people are. They give this information to missionaries and wards.

From what I've gathered, these methods are all legal, but would be considered "unethical" by many.

And I would argue that the church resides in this sphere of "legal but unethical" in much of what it does. This particular sphere warms my heart because of all the lessons, talks, etc. that preached about the "letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law."

The church doesn't care about your privacy - that's the spirit of the law. The letter is that they can track you.

They will track you.

And then it's up to the missionaries, ward leaders, and you to do with what happens next.

I have resigned, and I've been left alone since then (I am aware that others have had different experiences). However, my suspicion is that the church still knows EXACTLY where I am. They were so eager to talk to me when I was "less active," and now they are so symmetrically silent.

The church isn't concerned how creepy and distasteful this is. Again, that's the spirit of the law. The letter allows them to know where we are.

And just as they know that the church is true, Jesus was the Christ, and Joseph was a prophet of god; they will know where you are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2014 11:14PM by Raptor Jesus.

How hard they track you depends on how much money you paid over the years. I'm still on the books, but they don't bother with reactivating me b/c i never paid.

They might use post office address service to track ppl.

I think you are onto something. There are lots of "inactives" in any Mormon ward, but the only ones I have ever seen the church really go after were the families that had the potential to be a good steady source of tithing, if only they would come back.

I figure it's pretty easy for LD$ inc to look up how much tithe any person has paid them in their entire lifetime with a few mouse clicks. There computer program probably sifts out the 'VIP' members and highlights the names of the ones worth reactivating...LOL

This may explain why they won't leave some board members alone, but I don't even get a plate of cookies left at my door at Christmas. I'm too poor.

Only once or twice early on at the turn of the last century when RfM was new.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> I never paid a dime & they tracked & harassed me for 30 years.

I guess they just really liked you or...? could you have cancelled your 'account' with them maybe?

They know better than to show up.

Even locally there is a lengthy track-down process for any "lost sheep" before the record is sent to SLC HQ for further investigation. Locally "the brethren" (EQ) visits all known addresses, calls all known phone numbers, checks with USPS for known forwarding addresses, searches online for a new address, contacts any known family members in the area, etc. There is a form for it.. all points need to be checked off before the record is accepted for transfer.

Sounds like they have a problem.
Of their own creation.

You can buy a voter list. Has name, number, address and political affiliation. I wonder if they go after the republicans more than the democrats?

As I have two parents who would gladly give the COB my address, I'm really surprised I haven't had anyone knock on my door since I moved here a couple of years ago. Then again, my records were in a small, slightly dysfunctional branch just beyond the edge of the Morridor. I wonder if that branch just hasn't cleaned its list of no-shows. Regardless, not having to be pestered for all this time has aided my recovery. When/if I do get a knock on the door, I can handle it much better.

If the LDC corp wants to waste their time and resources on knowing where I live, fine by me. I admit, however, I don't have family who are LDS, so that PIA isn't part of my life. I know others battle this all the time.

They use illegal means when necessary if they think it will go unnoticed by lawyers and the press.

In the internet age, most people are findable using free online resources. If you rent or own a home, or have utilities or a phone in your name, you are in a database somewhere. In a few difficult cases paying a very small amount of money will gain you the information. It helps tremendously if you know the community in which someone resides.

It is really easy to find were most people live using the internet if you know a first and last name with an age or past redidence. Sometimes you dont even need a name. I can find the first and last name, address, family, and phone number to many people just with their user ID



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I wish they actually did visit me. I'd love to get into a theological discussion / destruction of their testimonies type of argument.

There are some missionaries who live close. They visited me once. It must have been so traumatic that they don't even look at me when I see them on the street anymore. :(

I was frequently asked to go to the post office and get the forwarding addresses on inactives who had moved out of the ward. The new address was then passed on to SLC.

I hang my head in shame....

What raptor? no swearing or f-bombs? What's going on! I'm highly disappointed in you right now!! ;)

Also, thank you to anyone who contributed to specifically how the church tracks people.

While it may be "easy" to do - it also takes time.

This is what the church chooses to spend members' time on.

Finding so-called lost sheep.

I know where they are, too.

Dammit.

Even just ten years ago it took some legwork to track someone down. But today, there are a large number of subscription locating services that cater to investigators, lawyers, law enforcement, government, anyone recall with with a "valid" reason to find you. There are federal and state protections in place to protect privacy but there are exceptions. For example, TSCC could use the "holding a beneficial interest" exception to locate credit header information for just a couple of bucks. This will give address history, possible employment, telephone numbers, etc. That's just a basic request and a report can be built from there to include income, property ownership, vehicles, court bases, relatives, hobbies, friends, investments, and the list goes on.

TSCC employs a number of investigators who have access to this information and can and do, spend all their time tracking down people for whatever reasons. This program is a well oiled machine and requests for this information come in from church leaders, the church legal department, finance department, membership records, and, again, the list goes on. As long as they have a valid reason, which included the above, they'll find you if they want.

Of course there are ways to disappear or at least make yourself more difficult to find, but only a very small number of people ever feel the need to do that.

Privacy is dead. Any person, organization, or government agency can and will find you if they want. And find along with your contact information all your personal habits, vices, associations, behavior, etc. Again, PRIVACY IS DEAD.

Wow. This is terrifying.

Here are some thoughts in dealing with unwanted visitors at your door.
1. Invite them in, serve them pizza because they are always hungry, and proceed to tell them about the true origin of the Book of Abraham, the absence of Jewish DNA in the Indian tribes in the Americas, and the role of Sidney Rigdon collaborating with Joseph Smith to create the Book of Mormon. The greatest service you can provide them with are reasons to disbelieve these absurdities.
2. have a bucket of water on your porch. Go outside onto your porch, calmly pick up the bucket and drench them without warning. then calmly go back inside. They will not return again.
3. If you have been through the temple endowment, you will recognize this as your greeting at the veil. Do it to your visitors and they will be so shocked they won't return.
You open your door a few inches, extend your hand and say "What is wanted?"
4. Take charge of your life and STOP HINTING. Tell them to their faces "FUCK OFF AND DIE." They will stop bothering you, guaranteed. Say it with some backbone, (yes you will have to grow one.)
5. Resign from the church, and your name will be removed from the church rolls. This is the ultimate way to stop their visits.

Yeah so...
The bill collectors know where I am also and I ignore them too.

When my friend was talking to a General Authority about his doubts, my name happened to come up in the conversation. The GA replied --" We know where he is living, and what he is up to "

This was information about an individual living a *COUNTRY* away from where the interview took place . The LDS church has the second largest private security force in the USA, Do not be deluded into thinking that you can hide.

JB