I am thinking that good people who are closeted unbelievers are generally unintentionally doing a disservice to both mormons and the exmormon community, on the premise that more unbelievers (especially the most respected unbelievers) who make themselves known, will instill greater pressure on the the church to let go of its cultish abusive ways. What say ye?


.

Some people have to stay in, even if they don't want to. It could hurt family relationships, marriages, etc. If you're a minor and your parents are TBM, you could get kicked out. If you're going to BYU, you can't tell people you no longer believe, it's too risky.

Overall I think it's much better to leave, obviously, but the people who stay in probably need to.

Is it really that bad to make it known that you nolonger believe, while going to BYU? A fundamentalist belief in mormon mythology is not necessarily a requirement for enrollment. Give me one example of a child kicked out of their parents home for simply not believing in the mythology. Most likely, if they get kicked out, it would be for other complications. In the long run, it is not fair to family members, including spouses, to be left out in the dark. I dont think mormon families get broken up for one spouse nolonger believing in the mythology. It would have to be do to other complications as well.

I go to BYu and yes yes yes you will get kicked out on your ass if you are no longer a believer. It is a well understand fact here at this school.

Krampus, you can "believe" whatever you want to, but we have had numerous stories on this board over the years of spouses divorcing (and sometimes kids getting kicked out) over a lack of belief.

As well as many stories from people getting 'kicked out' of BYU and other LDS-owned schools for unbelief. This is done through the loss of their 'ecclesiatical endorsement.'

I agree with you OP. I hear lots of social and cultural, some financial reasons to continue to associate with the cult fraud known as the Mormon church.

Works for them, I understand.

The cost is paid by others though, many, many others. Especially the thousands of BIC children that will never get a shot at a childhood without the programming of the Mormon church. Allies of Mormons are not allies of former Mormons. Broad statement, I am sure flawed and open to hear how people are succeeding at both, but I certainly don't see the benefit of go alongs or apologists to date. Get us some insider stuff that can be used to expose their financial or operational fraud. Do something from the inside that whacks the bigoted beast from Utah in the nose and gets its attention for once. Turn it into a listener instead of a talker.

Most survivors of war will tell you the real heroes are those that died on the battlefield.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 03:46AM by gentlestrength.

Krampus! Wrote:
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> [the] more unbelievers
> (especially the most respected unbelievers) who
> make themselves known, will instill greater
> pressure on the the church to let go of its
> cultish abusive ways.

> What say ye?

Positive thought but doubtful.
The cult takes no responsibility.
The cult cannot make the connection: "our abuse is producing defections."
Abuse and oppression are rather a way of life, a calling endorsed by their god.


The closet Mormon is participating in a very expensive 'hobby.'

there should be a way to enforce Amendment 18 , because they are breaking a law a showing deliberate Discrimination against those who obviously leave the church. You have a legal right to not belong to ANY church at all. (I believe it's number 18- anyway it's the one that states you have a right to not have a religion as an Adult U.S. Citizen)

There is no amendment specifically calling out the right to no religion. The first amendment prohibits government from passing laws establishing a religion -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

This amendment is very misunderstood. Most people assumes it means any organization cannot discriminate. Wrong. It specifically calls out government. A private organization can still discriminate against those who do not believe as they do.

Krampus! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more unbelievers(especially the most respected unbelievers) who
> make themselves known, will instill greater pressure on the the church to let go of its cultish abusive ways. What say ye?

I agree it would be a good thing for more disbelievers to "come out."

But two points:

1) "Cultish abusive ways" are only a part of the problem. The more fundamental issue is that TSCC is built on a series of historical lies, and that's not fixable. If they come clean on the First Vision, on the Book of Mormon, on modern-day prophets, on the Book of Abraham, and on the priesthood restoration, the whole essence of Mormonism collapses. There is no reformation possible short of dismantling the foundation of the organization, and then the organization loses its entire identity; it transparently becomes a group of people exploiting other people.

2) I don't want TSCC to improve. I want it to go away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 08:02AM by left4good.