I know i've asked ?? on prev. post. as i've stated, i was within a hair of being baptised.(canceled twice since late feb.) the guys just stopped by and wanted to see how i'm doing. one even teared up. Anyways the ? "Do you need me to do anything 4 u?" came up once more by each of the guys.Was told the devil has probably swayed me. Anyways one more ? i have, @ this time is "Are they really believing this,themselves or is this a ploy?? Another thing i'm baffled by, somewhat o.k. the LE who first began coming by in early dec. 2010 could literally sell ice to an eskimo. he had that personable trait as well as gift of gab. Is this something that's picked out before they are missionaries or are they trained that well in MTC. Can't hardly believe 19 yr old guys can do this w/a clear conscience.

when they are Primary children (age 5 or so) they are taught this song

"I hope they call me on a mission,
when I have grown a foot or two.
I hope by then I will be ready
To teach and preach and work as missionaries do.

I hope that I can share the gospel
With those who want to know the truth.
I want to be a missionary
And serve and help the Lord while I am in my youth."

That's just how the indoctrination starts. Then there are classes in Sunday School, Priesthood, Seminary, Institute and not to mention what goes on at home. Imagine what their brain is like by the time they are 19 or 20 when they enter the Missionary Training Center, where the peer pressure and indoctrination are really intense.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 01:05PM by wine country girl.

But it doesn't make it true.

Tks. for the info wine girl!! so it is their belief and not that they're trying to sell, or made of "snake oil". Even though I have changed my mind, I do still give a cold bottle of water w/them. I just needed to know, is it intentional or do they honestly believe what they are stating. tks. much.

It getws hot, as well as humid here in MS. I'll almost always offer/give them a bottle of water to take on their way. (don't see any harm) (even though i'm not sold on their "product"

Unfortunately, some believe it, or are trying to believe it. They have always been taught the things they are trying to teach you, and they don't know any other way. They have been taught that anything written against the church is of the devil, and so they can't even entertain a thought against the church. They can't understand why you would reject it. It's not something they have experience in.

So anxious to help, earnest, so emotional, so sweet and innocent,

They're bucking up their own beliefs as they needle you and hope you'll fall into line.

Anyone here could have written out that scene exactly as you related it. You're just like any other possible convert and these mishies are run of the mill nerdy priesthood guys hoping to turn you into a faith promoting story of mormon truth and success.

Men cry in mormondom. There was a 2nd counselor in my ward who would cry every single time he was at the pulpit. OMG. It was like clockwork.

If they were genuine tears from your mishie, he probably was thinking about all the hell he was going to catch for letting you slip through his fingers.

Nice escape!

they began bringing up ward members, former miss. which have been transferred, stating all of them have been asking about me. yeah, right. (thousands of people he's talked with/met and he'll single out asking)they must have to tell higher ups when someone has postponed and/or canceled baptism.

yes, and i realize now that, it was a "prime" resource for them. lost my spouse of 26 yrs. been laid off from job 10 mos whenever they began coming around. (i do well, though) all of the eyes, attention, focus etc. strictly on you. i'll even ask them about themselves.

Missionaries are taught to identify people who have had some loss in their lives because they are more "ready" to "hear the gospel." In other words, when people are in a very vulnerable state, they are being pressured to make life-changing decisions and commitments. We deliberately tried to find out who had lost a loved one, a job, or a marriage.

The missionaries are taught to deliberately form a relationship with potential converts and leverage that relationship into a baptism. Even more effective is for church members to create friendships and then introduce the missionaries. The baptismal rates go way up when that happens.

I taught at the Missionary Training Center in Provo in the early 1980s, so I know it is all very deliberate. The young missionaries just accept it and due to their upbringing, age, and inexperience don't think to question the ethics of what they were doing. Neither did I because I was right and had the truth.

For your edification:

http://www.mtc.byu.edu/

The missionaries really believe it. They may be indoctrinated and true believers, but if they understood some of the issues on this board they wouldn't act the same.

Look at the reviews for that new broadway musical - the book of mormon - these guys have been indoctrinated to believe the book of mormon is this cure all to all the worlds problems. And when people like you convert it kind of validates that belief.

I have read pat threads you have started. The mormon church can be a great bunch of nice folks. If you join it should just be for that reason. Most mormons, if you look close enough really are buffet mormons - they don't believe everything hook line and sinker.

Need a "like" button. elder vader, were u a miss.??

nowadays, they have cell phones as well as get to text, e-mail, etc. i know for a fact they e-mail loved ones, quite frequently.

They don't tell you about polygamy, tithing, the strange temple ceremony, temple garments, etc. etc. Richard Packham has written extensively on this, but I can't find the link. Maybe someone else can post it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 01:34PM by wine country girl.

Deb, I can't help but feel compelled to correspond one-on-one. vancouvervintage at hotmail dot com.

If you get baptized, don't expect to see these guys again. You'll be their brag story when they get home from their missions and your conversion will be their selling point when they're trying to land a pretty wife.

You know, it's sad to hunt out &/or scope for someone in that state. What's worse is to use coercion to go after the "kill". Is that what it's about. I'm still "speaking" to them when they stop by as well as sending them w/bottled water. (humid here) Educated, well rounded people, middle aged, and what's sad is ALMOST falling for it. WWJD?????(If he knocked on someone's door)

Well, missions set numerical goals for hours worked, for number of discussions taught, and, most importantly, numbers of baptisms, referred to as "baps" in my mission (Cordoba Argentina 1977-1979). My mission president offered prizes--something I openly objected to, by the way. *He* was under heavy pressure by his presiding general authority to produce numbers.

The the missionaries may "love" you, but you were also a "bap," and for some missionaries you might be only a "bap." The most egregious example from my mission:

On the last day of the month our zone (a subdivision of the mission) was *one* baptism short of its goal. Our zone leader badly wanted to meet the monthly goal. To accomplish this, he looked up a investigator who has stopped taking the missionary discussions and found her at a party. She was somewhat intoxicated but he (handsome, charming fellow) pressured her into getting baptized. It was late in the evening by this time. He got her to the church, for which he had keys, but didn't have a key to the bathroom adjoining the baptismal font. No problem. He broke open the accordion doors closing the font off from the viewing area, found a ladder and put it into the font. When the font had just enough water to over the women, in she went down the ladder sometime before midnight, and he baptized her. Goal accomplished! It was a sickening experience I was ashamed even to have witnessed.

So, yeah a "kill." Not all missionaries are this way.This guy was extreme, but there is that aspect.

I didn't get away free personally from this kind of experience on my mission. I paid a psychological and emotional toll. It took me years to get over some aspects of my mission. Some five years or so after my mission, my wife wondered why I never talked about the experience.

Although I was a "successful" missionary in numbers of baptisms I came home feeling I had not "done enough."

In addition to feeling generally depressed, I had become phobic about setting goals and believing I could reach them. I felt a sense of panic when I thought about taking on a project. Eventually, I saw my mission experience contributed to this fear. We were constantly told to commit to baptizing a certain number of people each month and were told if we worked hard and were *worthy* we would reach it.

Every time we didn't reach the baptismal goal, I beat up on myself and wondered why I wasn't worthy. I racked my brain trying to figure out what I did wrong. I dreaded setting goals because I "knew" ahead of time I was unworthy and was going to fail. It took leaving the church and realizing that I was asked to do the impossible before I recovered some confidence. I was asked to commit to goals I had no control over. I couldn't decide for someone else that they would be baptized, although sometimes I damn well tried.

I don't know if the missionaries who taught you will be bothered later by their wrong thinking and behavior, but I sure was.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 09:39PM by robertb.

sorry that the being a miss. did this 2 u. i was told on a blog/site that when they(missionaries) were informed b/c of the 2nd cancelation of baptism commitment that was cancelled by myself, that it may have been "genuine" tears b/c their superiors would chew them. who knows. i was told the "devil" was working on me and that's why i cancelled.

Exercising good common sense is never "of the devil".

The Mormon church deliberately manipulates people's feelings, it is called heart-sell.

Do you think such manipulation comes from God? Quite the opposite.