We convened with usually a general idea of possible outcomes, but after we heard from those who spoke (the member, witnesses, etc.), the first thing I had my two counselors do was lay out the most severe and the least severe action they thought possible, and we went from there.
On several occasions we issued probation. On a couple we sent the person packing with no sanction whatever.
What's going on with you lately, Cheryl? We've all done stuff as TBMs that, in hindsight, we would have done differently or not at all. There's no need to get so aggressive about it.
I don't expect anyone to dwell on it but I would assume that those who are recovering would face it before they shrug it off.
It's like the exmo missionaries who remain proud of "serving honorably" and don't care that they used lies and broke up families to achieve number goals. Most former missionaries have a reality moment about what they did before they totally purge their complicity from their minds. Others dwell on it when there's nothing to be done and a few are still proud of their sacrifice and never seem to understand how they were implicated in telling lies and harassing innocent people.
The OP asked a simple and direct question which left4good answered clearly and succinctly. Just because left4good chose not to express any emotion in that particular response doesn't mean he has no regrets for any damage he may have caused in his former Mormon leadership role ... and it certainly doesn't give you the right to call him "indifferent."
Perhaps he did and wanted to keep it to himself. I saw no evidence that he thought this system was harmful or that he regretted the personal harm it caused.
I suggest you start a few threads about how even ex-mormons do not always express remorse for past sins even when they have every opportunity to do so.
Yes...I came home from Iraq and several days after my return it became known to my wife that I had cheated on her.I was in turmoil when I returned.My house was in turmoil my marriage was failing and I was fairly messed up.They always wanted to talk to me and I always avoided them.I never spoke to them and finally after being home for nine months I went and spoke to the Bishop...I was asked if I would return to the church if excommunicated, I said no, I wouldn't. When we parted I know thatt he issue was referred to a Disciplinary council which I declined to attend..Later, I learned that I was placed on "probation" provided I get counseling through LDS Family Services and report back monthly...I reported Monthly but got counseling through the VA which they were not happy about because they were unable to get any information back from the VA.
I think they went easy on me because I had huge issues from Iraq I was dealing with and never really seemed to interested in their process. I think they felt that if they were to "hard" on me they would chase me away....The ironic thing I learned about the church is that often times the extent to which you may be punished is directly proportional to how much you care.
The whole idea of threatening to kick someone out of the church depends on that person wanting to stay in it. "Please don't throw me out into the cold, cruel, evil world! Don't take away my blessings and my access to the celestial kingdom! I'll be good, I'll do anything you demand! I promise!"
Well, there is a person here whose husband admitted to being a serial adulterer. The tide turned, however, when one of the so-called "authorities" present suggested that she was unable to satisfy her husband. They gave him probation, and punished her by releasing her from her callings. Since the men are just car salesmen, lawyers, and school teachers, no one has a clue as to how to even perform their duties.
Hey, I've heard that story. The good ending is, that the HC court was the very first crack in the door of "something's rotten in the state of Zion" for that person who posts here. It started letting some light filter in. She is now a very happy exmo and the poor oh-so-repentant penishood holder is a miserable, obese, decrepit loser living with his TBM mother and depending on hookers for his satisfaction. Oh, but still a mormon in good standing. Bwahahahahaha.
I'm backing "left4good" on this argument. Many of us here were active TBMs and called to bishoprics and high councils. Many of us were involved in church courts and all that ugly stuff, and we felt we were doing right, even if ultimately we were not. Then we become ex-Mormon, and we know that all that was bad. What can we do? Try to warn others. I feel genuinely bad for it for helping to pass judgement on people when there was none to pass, but I did so as a believing member. Many of us here did similar things as presidents of YM/YW, the Relief Society, and in many other functions.
This is supposed to be a forum we can turn to in order discuss these things, the times of judgement being over, having been replaced by a time of healing and further learning. Now we can laugh at ourselves for believing such things and try to recover from the past, largely from things that we did. If not this, then what? If not this, then what is special about RfM? If we continue to judge each other by what we did as active Mormons, why not just hang out at LDS.org?
Agreed, it was totally uncalled for and inappropriate for Cheryl to demand a certain emotional response from left4good. I mean, I feel no remorse for the things I did as a TBM, I don't have the emotional capital to spend on a situation where I believed (at the time) that I was doing the right thing. I can only make choices with the tools I have, I can't go back in the past castigating myself for every choice I made with an insufficient set of tools.
Sounds like some don't think Cheryl can have her/his own opinion. Isn't that what this forum is all about? HER subject did have non-existent context but so what.
I think if someone truly was a Believing Member of the LDS church and did their calling or missionary work to the best of their ability and they sincerely thought their actions were honorable, then they should not be ashamed of said work. Shaming on this post is no different than what MORmONs do.
Should my wife be ashamed for what she is involved with, gawd no. She doesn't know any better.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2014 10:36AM by imconfusednow.
Anyone who can't deal with a passing opinion needs to get a grip. That's especially true of someone who sat in judgment and dished out punishments in Mormon kangaroo courts and doesn't express a whiff of learning with the advantage of hindsight.
These courts are sexist and unfair. They're highly political, slanted, and based on the whims of whoever takes charge. Evidence is often nothing but bishop pillow talk or gossip from his wife. The "courts" don't allow for any of the normal protections of a fair court hearing and they ruin lives, families, and reputations.
To claim that I'm worse than that is laughable and those making that accusation are deluded and as judgmental as the Mormon priesthood guys who ex, disfellowship, shun, and harass.
I felt horrible and he was sure he was going to hell. We had gotten above average baptisms for the area we were in, so the mission president court of love (there were two others guys there but I don't remember who they were) seemed perplexed that the sinner and his obviously non-babysitter comp could have the spirit enough for so many baptisms. It seemed to me, since I got thoroughly grilled also, that they thought the guy made it up to get out of the mission for some reason they couldn't determine! It was a wtf moment for me when they let him stay (not that I wanted him to go). The only thing I can guess is that they thought the guy was beating himself up sufficiently? And/or they didn't believe he really did it and they wanted more baptisms? Anyway, the MP actually asked him to extend twice, so he actually served 26 months.