When LDS attempt to muddy the DNA waters by pretending that the BoM text allows for the existence of "others", they typically argue that the term "Lamanite" evolved into a political term meaning "non-Nephites" and that it could therefore include previously-existing-but-unmentioned "others". To make this argument, however, they are forgetting the Church's global flood doctrine and are ignoring several critical proofs in the BoM text:

* 2 Nephi 1:8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

* Various prophesies relating to the "land of promise" and it only be possessed by those who obey God. The one exception given by the text is the seed of Nephi's brethren who were prophesied to possess the land for a time following the destruction of Nephi's seed, only to later be sorely afflicted by the gentiles arriving from across the see.

* MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: At the pinnacle of the BoM, Christ arrives and leaves during the year 34 AD. By 36 AD everyone has been converted to the Church, and the text in 4 Nephi confirms that THERE WERE NO LAMANITES FOR NEARLY 160 YEARS:

1:2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

1:17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, NEITHER WERE THERE LAMANITES, NOR ANY MANNER OF -ITES; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.

[time-keeping verses omitted, but we are at 110 AD in verse 18 before adding 84 more years in verse 20, bringing us to 194 AD--194 years is also restated in verse 21]

1:20 And he kept it eighty and four years, and there was still peace in the land, save it were a small part of the people who had revolted from the church and taken upon them the name of Lamanites; THEREFORE THERE BEGAN TO BE LAMANITES AGAIN IN THE LAND.
***********************

This last point cannot be overstated. 4 Nephi leaves apologists with two equally absurd choices:

1. All ancient native Americans were converted to Christianity and lived in a utopian society from 36 AD until 194 AD.

2. Unmentioned "others" with Asian DNA started arriving in the New World around 200 AD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2014 04:38PM by Facsimile 3.

Ah, but it depends on what your definition of "land" is...

That is why the timing is so important. Apologists contend that the Jaredite/Lehite/Ishmaelite/Zoramite/Mulekite DNA was lost when those peoples joined existing cultures in Mesoamerica, participating as sub-cultures within the millions of pre-existing, but unmentioned "others" who descended from Asians emigrating over the Bering strait.

Obviously, such a scenario is NOT supported by the BoM text, but if one were so inclined to allow such a loose interpretation, this sub-culture merging would have occurred very early in the BoM narrative. That is where the alleged "clues" to unmentioned "others" are found: large population needed to build temple like unto Solomon's, many wars and contentions in the first few generations, "and all those who would go with me" in 2 Nephi 5:6, and the Jacob/Sherem confrontation in Jacob 7.

That means using Lamanite as a political term for non-Nephite would have applied to the millions of Olmec, Mayan, etc. Mesoamerican cultures among which the Middle Eastern sub-cultures were participating. Once applied, it would NOT make any sense to be able to arbitrarily remove the generic Lamanite title and claim that there were no longer any Lamanites or -ites of any kind in 4 Nephi.

Err, DNA doesn't just "go away" when populations mix. Witness most recently the papers in Science and Nature that report Neanderthal DNA present in all non-African populations. The amount in any individual is typically 1-3%. The alleles in human population pools vary with region and sum of all Neanderthal alleles across the world runs about 20% of their total genome. If there was any interbreeding of Levantine people in the new world on anything remotely like the BoM claims, their markers would be everywhere. They're in fact nowhere. Anyone with even a freshman biology class would not try to resort to that fig leaf.

No disagreement here. I am just attempting to use the BoM text against the apologist argument to demonstrate that even if it *were* possible, it would contradict the BoM text.

...here's another one that refutes the Mopologists' contentions that the "Book of Mormon people" were just a small fraction of the overall American population: the BOM states that its people---the BOM people, no one else---were as numerous as the sands of the sea, and that they covered the land with buildings from sea to sea.

Also, the Book of Ether says that two million Jaredites were killed in their final battles; and the final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites circa 400 AD killed about 230,000 Nephites alone. Those stated figures refute the Mopologists'entire line of argument.