If I were still active (not necessarily TBM, obviously) and in a position of leadership or in a teaching capacity I would do one thing

-- undermine hierarchical influence --

by consistently teaching and encouraging members to find answers to their questions by diligent study (not in the scriptures, in their minds) and to develop trust in their "spiritual" instincts. I would make them the authorities in their own lives and work tirelessly but inoffensively to erode the influence of "the Brethren".

I would accomplish this by occasionally demonstrating the fallibility of the Brethren and the scriptures in palatable ways.

Furthermore, I would harp on the example of Joseph Smith--his independence and determination in seeking answers directly from the Lord for himself.

I would teach that while rules are generally rules, exceptions may be granted from time to time (Nephi killing Laban, for example), the obvious lesson being that if you determine to do something in opposition to what the Brethren teach that doesn't necessarily mean you aren't aligned with "God".

This would be my sole but very subtle purpose, because I believe this mindset is how people free themselves from the controlling influence of hierarchical indoctrination and ultimately from self-deception that is Mormonism (or any other obedience-based cult).

I think that you are aiming too high if you are aiming at the Top 15.

Back in the day, I was gospel doctrine teacher, and I was always taking oblique pot shots at the local bishops and SP. Just enough to get the point across that (contrary to their own opinion) the local leadership was not any sort of authority on doctrine, etc. It is the local leadership that the members have to deal with on a weekly basis, not Salt Lake.

You cannot do this. Sunday school is no longer a place for discussion, it is a place to read out of the manual. They have taken every step necessary to ensure anyone who tries that will immediately get shut down.

That is a FACT

I raised questions in HP class. Said I really need answers to some questions I posed:

"can we stop this nonsense and just stick to the correlated lesson manual" (quote- yes, really said that)
"I really don't feel the spirit anymore"
"just stick to the manual"
"why are we discussing this?"

I'm sorry. My wife and I tried for 6 months, the "lets change them, lets rescue other peoples kids, lets preach Jesus, lets work from the inside"

It. Doesn't. Work

Just get out of there

You will feel 10,000 times better

If people wanted to be rescues they would be honest when we mention these (content found in CES letter type) things to them the first time.

In the main they are there because they want to be there and as far as they will tell you "the spirit told me its true", therefore no amount of truth and facts will make a difference and they will hate you for telling them and treat you like Satan has a hold of you

Most of them are simply too far gone to rescue.

Which is why you probably have stuff all friends at church anyway...because they are boring idiots with zero personality and no zest or drive for life, information, understanding, wisdom and truth

We got to the point where we just asked each other, why are we doing this to ourselves and our children

We told the kids- teenagers who were 10x times more resilient than we took them for (they aren't stupid if they have a parent who is onto this and not a TBM) and we all left within 2 weeks.

You can do this

If you don't think you can, get out a piece of paper and pen right now and write down in 2 columns all the reasons why you don't want to participate in a church you know is a fraud and will not get you into heaven.

In the other column, write down the reasons you cannot just leave and never return.

I guarantee you one column is really long, and the other column not long at all

Losing a job is not a reason not to leave. Go find a new one and save your sanity AND Your salvation

Losing a spouse. No. If they leave you because you leave the false church then you don't have a relationship anyway

There is nothing in the reasons you can't leave column that outweights the damage you will experience to yo uand your children from staying

If you kid goes on a mission and one day discovers the truth (75% chance that will happen) and then discover YOU knew it was a lie before they went, your relationship with your child will be irreparable damaged

JUST. LEAVE

Don't stay because you want to save other people. Jesus saves.

Just. Leave

bOyd....excellent post. I too feel that when a parent knows it is all false that they are doing a huge disservice to their kids to keep them going and being indoctrinated further. And you are right...if a boy goes on a mission but later finds out you (the parents) did not believe but made him feel like he had to go to save face then your relationship will never be the same. You are the reason he missed out on two great yrs. of his life. How can a nonbelieving parent do that.

I'm out, but is it really this bad? When was this, b0yd?

Sounds crazy. Literally crazy. Very controlling--straight up 1984 stuff.

This kind of control needs to be weakened in some way for other people to wake up to the truth.

I'm half tempted to go to Sunday School to see how bad it is...

I had similar experiences in gospel doctrine class right before I left this last November.

The topic was discussing the priesthood ban on blacks and some woman literally said "our doctrine has never changed". I knew then I was never setting foot in that class again.

The lesson a few weeks before was on something relating to Brigham young taking the mantle of Joseph when the church split after Joseph's death.

All the people in the class were dumbfounded about why people didn't go with Brigham so I started talking about the political aspects of all those who had a rightful "claim" to lead. I spoke of how Joseph tried to get rid of Sidney rigdon and the church voted him back in. I also mentioned how most of church's members came from Sidney's congregation. I basically was trying to get people to realize that there was WAY more info about how this division went down than what we have been taught.

NOBODY said a word. It was total awkward silence and the teacher just changed the subject.

If you wanna know how little TBMs know about church history, sit through a few gospel doctrine classes. Funny, it's those of us who began studying past the lesson manuals and into "unauthorized" material who could really contribute something of substance to the lessons. The last few months I attended, when the teacher would ask a question, I would raise my hand and answer with something like you did---factual information, but "non-faith-promoting" and therefore unwelcome. After awhile, the teacher would just ignore me when I raised my hand. Then someone else would answer with the typical nonsensical, but expected, "faith-promoting" response.

I use to steer conversations yo accurate church history when I taught Sunday school. Depends on the people, the bishop and how far you push it.