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Posted by: verilyverily ( )
Date: February 24, 2014 07:24PM

I think it is a complete given that he had many children from different "wives" and other men's wives. The reason is the simple fact that there was NO birth control then. Even if there was the birth control we have now, with as many wives as he had, there would be a few "mistakes."

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Posted by: icedtea ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 09:02AM

It is not true that birth control was unavailable. Condoms made from lambskin and other natural materials were available in the US in the early 1800s; Charles Goodyear invented the vulcanized rubber condom in 1839.

Herbal birth control had been passed down from woman to woman since ancient writers Pliny and Discorides chronicled plants, recipes, and doses. Nicholas Culpeper's herbal, which contained extensive "remedies" to prevent pregnancy or bring on the "courses," was England's best-selling book next to the Bible for over 150 years during the Renaissance, and many copies came to the US with colonists. In addition, the "Pharmacopaeia" of 1820 was popular in the US as well.

Lest we automatically think that these herbal contraceptives were completely ineffective, the few studies that have been done on the specific mechanisms of plants such as rue, wild yam, celery, wild carrot seed, stoneseed, smartweed, and others indicate that they are, in fact, quite effective. Hundreds of years of trial and experience would also tend to select out for plants that created the desired results and were still safe to use. (Twenty-first-century women are rediscovering such herbs as alternatives to dangerous pharmaceutical contraceptives, as well).

Of course, JS could have practiced withdrawal or employed the services of Dr. Bennett in Nauvoo; there are a number of diaries, letters, and contemporary statements that indicate Bennett practiced abortion on JS's plural wives.

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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: February 24, 2014 07:25PM

I'll go through your link more carefully later, but from the quick scan it seems the only person who has done work on this line is Perego, and his impartiality seems suspect.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 24, 2014 07:28PM

Someone once linked a story where a woman on her deathbed admitted to being one of Smith's daughters by one of his many liaisons.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: February 24, 2014 11:28PM

well if he didn't it wasn't for lack of trying

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 12:28AM

^^THIS!!^^ lol

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 12:33AM

I keep hoping DNA will settle this.... (waiting)

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 02:52AM

At least that will be the next silly defense from FAIR.

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Posted by: gentleben ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 09:07AM

I recently heard of one Dr
Bennett who purportedly performed abortions for the profit when one of his wives accidentally became pregnant. Kind of flies in the face of the commandment to raise up seed to the lord.

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Posted by: beeblequix ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 02:40PM

I'm a descendant of Josephine Lyon(edit). We're moving the autosomal DNA analysis over to Ancestry.com for the study. My family is collecting amongst ourselves the $5000 needed to process 50 of our 200+ DNA samples. I'd personally rather be a Lyon than a Smith -- great great great great grandfather Windsor was supposedly a descendant of British royalty which doesn't mean much in the US other than it's a nifty genealogical item. We'll find out soon enough.

As far sireing children -- please don't jump to conclusions that Joseph ran around impregnating everyone. Let's try to stick with facts and not hyperbole or speculation. His having sexual activity is mutually exclusive from him getting his spiritual wives physically pregnant, though the opposite is not true. He probably did have sex with them, but it doesn't mean aborted babies everywhere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2014 08:13PM by beeblequix.

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Posted by: Hugh ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 03:46PM

Um..yeah it does.

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Posted by: beeblequix ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 06:03PM

Um....not doesn't. Your argument is meritless and your sycophantic opinion doesn't matter to anyone.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 06:22PM

That would mean the Earth's entire population from his day forward descended from him. Perish the thought.

On the other hand, it's possible that he may have tried to impregnate everyone--at least the women. (And, by the way, that doesn't mean "aborted babies everywhere," just maybe somewhere).

Please try not to indulge in the "hyperbole" and "speculation" you so roundly condemn.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2014 06:44PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: alx71tx ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 06:24PM

If the Olympics would've been held in 1832 (but they weren't since they didn't resume in the modern era until 1896) and they had an event called Hayrolling then I bet that Fanny and Joe could've won the Gold :) Instead all he got was some tar and feathers ;)

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Posted by: mythb4meat ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 06:29PM

Beeblequix:

Is Josephine Sessions Lyon the same person as Josephine Lyon Fisher?

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Posted by: beeblequix ( )
Date: February 25, 2014 08:11PM

Correct, and so sorry -- I typed through that too fast earlier and have too many ancestors mixed up in my pasta-like-mind today to keep it straight.

Clarification -- Sylvia Sessions Lyon married Windsor Palmer Lyon. Their daughter Josephine Rosette Lyon, who eventually married an Englishman named John Fisher, remains the one quandry in Mormonism -- was she Joseph Smiths' daughter like Sylvia claimed on her deathbed or was Windsor's? Makes you wonder too -- why would Sylvia make a deathbed confessional that didn't have at least some probability of being true? A person can't help their parentage and not that I need more reasons to dislike myself, but I get ill sometimes thinking that I may be carrying the DNA of Joseph Smith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2014 08:11PM by beeblequix.

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