Here is something interesting I heard recently. There was a pretty well substantiated rumor that someone I know here in the US was going to be called as some kind of Area Authority in Europe a while back. The Church ended up recanting the "offer" by saying something like "not at this time"...in my opinion, this is directly related to the firestorm going on with the Church in Europe right now.

I told my wife that he is VERY lucky man not to get the calling and she definitely agreed. He would have been like a soldier going to battle without any weapons...lamb to the slaughter...choose your favorite metaphor here.

Just a tad more evidence to illustrate that the church is seriously thinking "Houston, we have a problem!"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2014 11:24AM by zenmaster.

zenmaster Wrote:
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> He would have been like a soldier going to battle
> without any weapons...lamb to the
> slaughter...choose your favorite metaphor here.

Pearl to the swine.

I live in Europe, and most of the Area Authorities I've met here are other Europeans. So it would be unusual to have someone from the US sent here as an AA, but not un-heard of I suppose.

It must be difficult being an Area Authority in Europe though. Hans Mattsson was one and he even left the church in the end.

Anon for this Wrote:
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snip . . .

Hans Mattsson was one and he even
> left the church in the end.

Do you have a link about Mattsson leaving the church? I googled it and didn't find any info about him leaving, only info about his doubts.

he went on emeritus status as a GA but I don't believe he has actually left the Church

Usually Area Authorities are members who already live in the area. I guess they could call someone to move there though, kind of like a mission. Maybe the talent pool in Europe is really getting small and they need reinforcements from outside.

The guy I know has been a workhorse in the Church...well respected and has held some pretty difficult callings/had difficult assignments...he kind of is the type who would get called to "do cleanup work" or handle really sensitive, difficult situations.

My hunch is (pure speculation) is that someone was going to get released but the Church decided to keep continuity by not releasing this person due to the current nature of the situation in Europe.

zenmaster Wrote:
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> I told my wife that he is VERY lucky man not to
> get the calling and she definitely agreed. He
> would have been like a soldier going to battle
> without any weapons...

As long as he didn't look at porn he wouldn't have gotten wounded in the battle.

I grew up in Vienna where there was an "Austrian Mission" - and that's been dissolved into a Germany mission. And my France Missions were 3, then 4, and now only 2 (I believe that's right).

Maybe with all the mission consolidations..... it's because the position has been dissolved.

PapaKen, your comment jogged my memory a bit. I think the rumor was that he was going to be living in Germany. Wonder if he was going to be working with Kopschke (sp.?)?

I keep reading about this "current situation in Europe. " I'm French and live in the us. What's going on there? Is it about the trial or something else?

The general implosion of the Church in Europe...the trial is definitely related to this due to membership finding out the true facts

Excuse me, there isn't a trial.

There's summons to TSM to appear before the court in ENGLAND. (Which may or may not be considered Europe depending up who you talk to.) Extradition is complex and depends on treaties between the US and other countries. Generally, the US does not extradite in cases of financial crimes. If they do try to extradite him, no doubt the church could keep the process in court until TSM dies...

No Monson, the action can't proceed...

Phillips doesn't have the money to prosecute this action to a conclusion. (According to him, about $3.2 million. CPS will never touch this because of existing precedent and the relatively small number of affected people.) UK case law is very clear that courts are not allowed to get involved in anything regarding religious beliefs. (They parallel US vs. Seeger and US v Ballard.)

It's time that what Phillips did was recognized. He successfully linked the church and the concept of 'fraud' in people's minds. Any belief that this will ever be litigated is unfounded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2014 06:36PM by John_Lyle.

Yep, you're right...not a trial...point taken...its a summons at this stage...we'll see where it goes...I'm just not convinced this case will die before it goes to court...I agree, Tom Phillips has really accomplished something already...linking the Church to fraud...I just am not convinced that it doesn't have potential to go any further.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2014 07:06PM by zenmaster.

It started before that. Missionary work has been flat there for a very long time. Then you had the "Swedish Rescue" and the situation in England with Steve Bloor. Basically most Europeans are uninterested in Mormonism. Why would they be interested? It has nothing to offer them.

Europe was going downhill even then...in late 70's when I was there.....
But then, at least they had this grandiose dreams....
Now.....all but gone.

Re: Evidence of the Church's caring (sarcastic) nature (Europe-related rumo

Implosion? I've read about the leaked pdf about Europe and western England ... I love stats! More facts and evidence?

I think unit (wards and units) growth is one of the best statistical indicators of the REAL strength of Mormonism in an area.

The guy who has put together the Cumorah website has spent a lot of time putting together the demographics of the church throughout the world. Just click on the "statistical profile" of a country and he graphs the number of units and its growth over time. Clearly Europe is flat lining, if not shrinking.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=countries&cnt_res=2&wid=13&cmdfind=Search

he also published a book. I think his stuff is the best you are gonna get on Mormon growth stats.

There is a reason growth stats aren't widely published. If they were favorable to the Church, I'm sure they would be published on billboards

Ok, should have said PENDING implosion...if you really analyze the growth stats (from the leaked PDF), they're pretty abysmal. Combine that with the whole "Swedish Rescue" debacle, all the member dissent in the UK, and finally the pending UK case I can't see how the Church will survive in its current state. There are only so many fingers you can put in a dam before it breaks.

My humble opinion based on what I've seen from reading a few stats,reading between the lines and knowledge of how hard it has been to grow the Church in Europe over the years before the internet. I don't think I'm that far of base unless you are aware of something I don't know.