My FIL, a BIC, life long TBM, has been passed up for any calling in the bishopric or higher. He's retired and not doing well health wise now, but he spent his life aspiring, and expecting, to be a GA or at least a SP. He served on a mission, married in the temple, had a multitude of kids, paid his tithing (plus some) diligently, rarely, if ever, misses any kind of meeting. He's a model "member missionary" and isn't shy about talking to others about it. In short, he's exactly what TSCC would want every member to be. But he's never had an "important" calling.

He's always been in smaller wards that would need leadership positions filled. What would be the reason he's never been called as at least a bishop? I've wondered this for years.

He didn't know, or kiss up to the right people?

What did he do professionally?

^ this. My FIL same thing. He was a teacher - not any 'important' business or professional position. Oh, and he was a convert, no mission, but senior mission...

I'm also curious to know what your FIL did for a living. If he had a rather pedestrian job that would explain a lot.

I haven't had any major callings. My biggest callings have been typing up the sacrament meeting program and RS Chorister. Some of the people in my ward have 2 or more callings, I have no calling at this time, nor am I asked to talk in SM. I haven't been vocal at all about my disbelief, so there is no reason to keep me from callings.

I think you have to be a dynamic, rich, good looking person before you get a top job. Or be friends with the bishopric.

Must withhold snarky comment. Doesn't write it.

The issue is theological social status. You either have it or don't have it

Does his wife have a mental illness? It is not uncommon for men, who otherwise would attain leadership positions, to be looked over because of the mental health of their wife.

A large family and not enough money to go around would do it.
Or the SP did not like him.
Or...Or...Or..

There always are a myriad of problems in orgs which claim to speak for a God but do not.

Is he a white man? Just wondering. The church can be so racist

in certain areas.

The general rule is: choose the person who is most like a GA in dress, color, career, income, manner of speech and dedication to the church.

They must also be highly recomended and free from gossip.

We have a guy in our ward who has never held a presidency position in any capacity.

He is 61 and always a bridesmaid. He has been a counselor, secretary, HT supervisor, many times but never the top slot.

Admittedly he's a pain in the butt to work with, but that's never stopped anyone before.

If his family history doesn't go back to the pioneer era, then it's possible that he would be ignored as Mormons really value those families more than anything. Another reason is that he probably wasn't rich enough to have a calling, since in many wards, only lawyers, doctors, and business owners get to become bishop. Even upper level management isn't seen as being "worthy" enough to get such callings as he's not the CEO.

White guy
Pioneer stock
No mental health issues in family
Imitates GAs (dress, manner of speech, etc.)
Never a CEO (management)
Several different wards and stakes
Sqeaky clean

Although a full tithe-payer, he never had big money.

Here is one we're all overlooking!! Disabilities!! both mental and physical!!

Actually, my dad spent like 30 years as a scout leader before being chosen as a counselor in the bishopbric at age 63, when he retired. The new bishop had worked in scouts and was himself very busy with work - I think he pushed it through.

I used to wonder why - my dad made the full list (white, successful, pioneer...) Looking back I never heard him bear his testimony. That may have been because he didn't have much of one, just thought the ward was a good way to connect with the community. He was very honest. I don't know that he ever did bear witness to things he didn't believe - as counselor then or later on the high council. My guess is that something like that was a red flag. Plus his parents and brother became sort of Jack Mormons when his mother's book on scriptures was disavowed by the GAs. That was a different town, but the world is a small place and I'm sure two families with connections there would have known.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2014 02:30PM by vh65.

Spends more time with his family than the elite of LDS echelons?
Quiet-mannered instead of squeaky wheel?

I long ago noticed that men are called of men, not God.

A better question - is he happy with his life? He sounds like a fantastic person with a clear conscience.

Your FIL does not need to be defined by his church callings.

I always wondered the same thing about my TBM husband back in the day. He seemed to have all the "qualifications"--successful in business, large family, mission etc. etc. It was not until we left that I came to understand the dynamics. He is extremely independent and a free thinker. Always looking for a better way to do things, always looking out for the underdog. It never occurred to me at the time that these are not "traits" that the church was looking for. He hated priesthood meetings, he thought they should be "doing" rather than talking about "doing." I now understand the concept of being "church broke" and it all makes sense now.These are the traits that make a great exmo!!

Luck?

Good Karma?

No disabilities.
Free thinker? Not so much.
Spends more time with family than leaders? Yes.
Not so quiet mannered.
Happy with his life? I'd say so except for not moving up the ladder.
Fantastic person? Definately. Well known and respected in LDS circles. And well liked. Friendly to everyone and not judgmental in the slightest, even to those who have left TSCC. No big ego.

"Your FIL does not need to be defined by his church callings."
He wouldn't agree. If there's anything that he considers a failure in his life, it would be the lack of leadership positions. He always thought he would be a GA. Really.

He's lead what most would consider a very successful life other than this one thing. I don't try to talk him out of TSCC since he would then consider his entire life wasted, regardless of his other accomplishments.

I notice in my family that if you have all the expected traits and live in the "mission field" you are very likely to be bishop. If you live in Utah, that's no guarantee. There are "popular cliques" among middle aged men at church that make those decisions, and where pickings are slim it's easy to get in. Where there are lots of Mormons you have to suck up to the right people and even then...

Maybe he has turned them down and not told you or anyone.

How long does he stay in wards? I know it's typical for a stake president to expect a good solid 7 years or so out of his bishops, and it takes a while to get to know someone before putting them in that position.

I had an older family member who was a wonderful man, loved by all, but he was a school teacher and had a wife with some real mental health problems. But he was passed over a lot of things because he "struggled with pornography." His daughter and I are very close and she told me that herself. Once in a while he'd pick up a Playboy when he was stressed, feel bad about breaking the commandments, confess and keep to the rules for long periods of time until he got tempted to pick up the next Playboy. I'm sure the bishops knew all about this and kept him in callings they felt appropriate like Ward Historian.

Does he have a degree? The church is very big on degrees. For some reason that ranks higher than humility, gospel knowledge or logic. Look at the new stake presidents in the church news each week. They all have degrees and they are usually CEO's or hold very sucessful positions in their jobs. (Which means they usually donate a lof of cold, hard cash to the church). So the degrees you have means you'll be a good leader in the Corporation of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I worked for the church for a while. I saw many people promoted to their highest level of incompetence simply because they had a Masters degree. They had no people skills and no management skills whatsoever. But they had a Masters degree so they got promoted. While the good worker and good supervisor, who only had a Bachelor's degree, got passed over. It was a stange place to work.

I have observed that it has a great deal to do with the Stake President and his counselors. Different stake presidencies value different traits, but if they don't "notice" you, there is very little chance that you will ever get to be a bishop.

An interesting story:
I was serving on the high council after being first counselor to my bishop. The stake presidency was being reorganized and there was a lot of buzz about my bishop getting the call to be the stake president. That buzz had a lot of people suggesting that I was going to be the next bishop.

About that time, a new family moved into our ward, and the father (pioneer stock, well connected to Salt Lake) was called to the high council. He immediately started to express his "impressions" that the Lord had something significant in mind for him, and he would mention this to everyone he met, including my bishop and the stake presidency. I remember thinking that if God had some role for him, he would inspire the right leaders to bring that about. Why was he going around and declaring this information? It was like he was campaigning for office or something. It bothered me a little...

Well, my bishop was called to be first counselor in the new stake presidency. I had been very close friends with the newly called stake president, and he later confided in me that he felt very strongly that I should be the next bishop. The new stake presidency was in with the general authourity when they were asked to give him the name of the new bishop for my ward. As my friend (and new stake president) was about to say my name, his first counselor (my bishop) spoke up immediately and said "that would be "x" and said the name of the new guy who had been going around saying he felt something significant was coming his way. My friend said he was taken back by this interruption, but the "spirit" confirmed it so he supported the recommendation.

In later conversations with the new stake president, I confided in him that I had also had impressions that I was going to be the new bishop, and he told me that story and concluded that perhaps my impressions (and his) were correct, but the timing was off. So it goes.

Yet another story:
I had a friend who moved to a new ward and decided to mess with the system. He went to the bishop and said he felt strongly that the Lord was prompting him to prepare for a role of significant responsibility. He was soon called to be the new Elders Quorum president. My friend was joking to me about hos easy it is to influence leaders in the church. This was at a time when I was seriously devout, and his cavalier treatment of revelation was appalling to me.

Moral of the Story:
You have to prime the pump of inspiration. An important lesson to learn if you are going to get anywhere in this church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2014 04:46PM by saul.

My FIL is one of the most ultra-TBMs I know...very faithful in every aspect of his life...the type I would think his "calling and election would be made sure"...yet he has been a counselor in a bishopric and that's it...hasn't gone nearly as far as I think he should have...never did have tons of $$$ though.

How rich is he? In other words, how much tithing has he paid? Start there.

yep, there is definitely a $$$ pattern going on :)

J Golden Kimball, a member of the first quorum of the seventy, once said that positions come one of two ways. Revelation and relation. And that if he had not been the son of Heber Kimball he would never have been called to an important position.

The one and only true Spaghetti Monster chose to bless him for his good works.


Actually, he probably just didn't have the right connections at the right times. Some SP had his own cronies or family members he wanted in those positions so your FIL lost out and lost the exposure to higher ups. It's all just as political as any major corporation. Also, if there is anyone in the family that is not liked or an embarrassment or has been gossiped about or is gay it can nix him.

I agree that if he had lived in the mission field he probably would have been a bishop AND a stake president. In the midwest all a guy has to do is be still breathing to get those two positions. Not so likely to be a GA if coming from the mission field. They sort of like pioneer stock more than converts.

One of the Presidents of BYU-I was a really great guy who had very famous lineage but he couldn't make GA because he had a gay brother. Even though he was expecting a GA position and was surprised and hurt when it didn't come, I'm glad for him because he really was a good person that would probably been eaten alive by the current Big 15.

There could be a number of things. Most likely he was disciplined with an excommunication by a court of love when he was younger for something the Mormons consider serious. It could be something like having had an affair, or *gasp* having a divorce, though as I stated in another post a divorce really only is a problem if you are in Utah, since they get desperate in the rest of the world. Don't be quick to dismiss divorce though, I have Mormon and ex-Mormon friends who discovered, while adults, that one or both of their parents had a divorce when younger, and it was kept as a dark family secret, never shared with the children.

Your FIL could have done some serious jail time as a young man, or engaged in other criminal acts that he confessed to the church, but have never come to the attention of the authorities. Or he could have had an affair, that he confessed, even though it may have been a one time thing that happened years ago, and that caused him so much guilt that he has never strayed again. He may have admitted to the church authorities as to having helped someone have an abortion. He may be a closeted homosexual, or has admitted having bisexual feelings.

He may refuse to pay tithing, because the church doesn't open its books, but keeps this little rebellion to himself, because he sees the church as mostly good. He may have prominently spoken out against the leaders as a youth, or got sent home from his mission for boinking the Mission President's daughter.

Whatever it is, it is more likely to be something that doesn't blemish who he is as a man in real life, than it is to be something horrible, like him being a murderer, or child rapist. Hell you can do those last two, and still be the prophet of the Lord, in Mormonism.

Past indiscretion? I have a relative who was disfellowshipped (I don't know why) for a short time. He never made a high rank calling after that, despite giving thousands of extra dollars to the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2014 05:04PM by donbagley.