First, I would ask all of the non believers to leave their skepticism at the door for this thread, because I am genuinely curious, but don't want people to feel like they can't post without being attacked for their personal flavor of woo. So in that sense, please don't try and deconstruct every claim :)

That being said, I am an atheist, and I am fairly comfortable with that, but I keep seeing posters say that exmo atheists are discounting the non abrahamic gods, or just focus on traditional Christianity, and don't take into account completely different ideologies. Fair enough, I haven't really looked in depth into any, so I figure maybe I should give them a fair chance. Maybe they do have a point, I won't know if I don't look.

So, have at it. What is your non abrahamic god? Where can I find more about him/her/them? Why did you choose that belief system over Mormonism?

Thanks in advance for those who humor me and help me broaden my horizons :)

I pray to Joe Pesci. The results are about the same as when I prayed to Elohim, or Jesus: 50/50

What do those prayers look like? Any different from the Elohim flavor prayer?

It looks like this:

Hi Joe
Hope all is well
Could really use a winning lottery ticket
It's what I want, but it's up to you
You're Joe, after all
Later...

How about Enlil and Enki ? These 2 are stated to have brought mankind here as labor . We were brought in a space ship , which means we were also brought in a test tube .

I'm also an atheist, but out of all the religious mindsets I've looked into so far, the one that makes the most sense to me is Deism. Basically, Deism posits that it is extremely unlikely that the universe we see was created by chance, therefore there must be some mind behind its origin. (I don't agree with this, myself. And I think it requires an unwarranted logical leap. How do we know that this universe is unlikely? How many universes have we compared it to? And how is an ultra-complex creator being the most logical explanation for this supposed quandary?)

Deists believe that some creator being(s) devised the universe and ordered the natural laws, but they don't believe in any scripture, revelation, or dogma. As far as they can tell, God(s) simply created the universe and then left it to the laws of nature he/she/they/it had devised. Organized religions, then, are man-made attempts to explain this creator, or to gain power by exploiting people's natural belief in him/her/them/it.

They actually claim to know very little about their god(s). They don't claim to know who/what God is, what God wants from us (if anything), why God created the universe, whether there is an afterlife, etc. I find that honesty quite refreshing, as opposed to most religions, which claim absolute knowledge of things that, in reality, men can only guess at.

nickname Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm also an atheist, but out of all the religious
> mindsets I've looked into so far, the one that
> makes the most sense to me is Deism. Basically,
> Deism posits that it is extremely unlikely that
> the universe we see was created by chance,
> therefore there must be some mind behind its
> origin. (I don't agree with this, myself. And I
> think it requires an unwarranted logical leap. How
> do we know that this universe is unlikely? How
> many universes have we compared it to? And how is
> an ultra-complex creator being the most logical
> explanation for this supposed quandary?)
>
> Deists believe that some creator being(s) devised
> the universe and ordered the natural laws, but
> they don't believe in any scripture, revelation,
> or dogma. As far as they can tell, God(s) simply
> created the universe and then left it to the laws
> of nature he/she/they/it had devised. Organized
> religions, then, are man-made attempts to explain
> this creator, or to gain power by exploiting
> people's natural belief in him/her/them/it.
>
> They actually claim to know very little about
> their god(s). They don't claim to know who/what
> God is, what God wants from us (if anything), why
> God created the universe, whether there is an
> afterlife, etc. I find that honesty quite
> refreshing, as opposed to most religions, which
> claim absolute knowledge of things that, in
> reality, men can only guess at.

Very interesting reading that it sounds like a mixture of Hindu/Buddhist philosophies really

5ish years ago i left the Morg (when i was 16) but i wanted nothing to do with Christianity at first. I looked into white magic and paganism i used to worship/pray to some greek and roman gods even some carthaginian ones, like aphrodite, artemis, hermes, athena, baal, etc.

After that i looked into hinduism and such it honestly is very interesting get your hands on the gita if you can it is actually a very good read. But now i am Orthodox Christian. (sorry)

For reals?

If you take out the words "believe/belief" (because this is MUCH too strong and misleading a word for where I am coming from), then my favorite god is--and always has been, since I was a little girl--Ganesha.

In Hinduism, Ganesha is the son of Shiva and Parvati, and he is a little boy (the one with the elephant's head, which was a transplant after his own head was, sort of "accidentally," cut off), but he is "in charge" (along with a fair number of OTHER gods) of things like new beginnings. In addition, and as a Jew, one of the few things I do fairly often is say the Shehecheyanu (a specific, brief blessing of only a few words) when wonderful things happen, or at good "beginnings" (the birth of a baby...the commencement of something long yearned for...), or in thanks.

Ganesha serves very much the same purpose (as the Shehecheyanu) in Hinduism--which was my first introduction to religion as a whole, and has remained, during my life, the foundation of my "religious"/philosophical "home base".

Ganesha is, in some respects, "still" (after all these thousands of years!) a "little boy": he speeds around the world on his beloved rat/mouse, who serves as his willing "vehicle"...he loves sweets...he loves laughter...

But he is also a "serious" god when it comes to beginnings, and good things, and thanks, and the joys of life. He is the remover of obstacles, and the protector of humankind.

Mostly, I thank (the Hindu god) Ganesha for new beginnings (sometimes I will chant the Ganapataye)...and I say the (Jewish) Shehecheyanu for the things, small and big, which have [at last!!!!!!] become reality...

...and for the REALLY big things which have [finally!!!] manifested for everyone's good, I sing/say both!!!

And this is one aspect of who I really, truly, am.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 02:09PM by tevai.

The Shehecheyanu (in Hebrew) is:

Baruch atah adonai eloheinu,
melech ha'olam,
shehecheyanu,
v'kiyimanu,
v'higiyanu,
lazman hazeh.

(the "ch" is a guttural "h"...like gently clearing your throat; Dutch has very much the same sound as one of the letters in the Dutch alphabet)

English Translation: Blessed are You, our God, Creator of time and space ["the universe"], who has supported us, protected us, and brought us to this moment.

From Hinduism...

The Ganapataye (in Sanskrit) is:

Om Gam Ganapataye Namaha

Many English translations (some humorous) for this ancient Sanskrit mantra...this (from a Western yogini) will give you the familiar flavor of the words:

"Yo! Wake up, energy of transformation, so I can move through any obstacles in my life. Hooray!" :D

P.S. If you go to YouTube, and search for shehecheyanu, you will find the entire spectrum of Jewish belief, from the Sesame Street/children's version...to the most ultra-Orthodox- rightwing "version." (They're all exactly the same prayer, but there are different "visions" of it. ;) )

And if you go to YouTube, and search for Ganapataye, you will be able to pick from a multitude of "versions." Again: exactly the same prayer in every one, but different "visions" of it.

Do like both Jews and Hindus do: Pick the one that resonates with you...because, for YOU, THAT one is the RIGHT one!!!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 03:37PM by tevai.

I'm a Shaiva yogi, a devotee of Supreme Shiva and Parvati, who are one, and who embody and manifest all being. Altho I do yogic practices to surrender the finite bodies to assist in realizing them, the essence is to lose myself in them. My true essence is Shiva, Parvati and Ganesh. OM AUM namah Shivaya

First, I would say to read up on polytheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

Then, the next is something I wrote about how I came to where I am now in believing in God.

I would like to tell you about my search for God after I left the Mchurch. I am not saying "You must believe this way!!!" only "this is what I believe, your mileage may vary."

After I left, I made a list of what I believed and what I didn't believe. With the subject of God, it came down to the fact that I couldn't believe in a God that was all-powerful, and yet all-loving. The dichotomy was too much when thinking of all the innocents that are in pain in the world. But, I believed in some kind of Higher Power, but that was obviously not the god of Abraham. So started my search.

After being out for over 25 years, this is where I am today.
My Goddess and God are loving individuals who are, basically, more spiritually evolved than I. They are not all-powerful, nor omniscient. They are, however, able to manipulate time and space in such a way that my mere human brain calls "Magick" and "Miracles". They do not demand worship or rituals, nor do they expect me to be more than what I am. Human. With all the flaws that that entails. I do worship them and use ritual to do so because it comforts me. As followers of them, they do want me to continually evolve as a spiritual being, with all the little backsliding that goes with that. Needless to say, I have a much better relationship with them, than I ever had with the Mormon god.

I believe in a trinitarian God:

Truth
Beauty
The Good

I believe Humanity's proper work is to divinize our selves our lives our things our surroundings and especially our fellow living creatures and the planet we share. To divinize is to make truth, beauty and goodness.

Unlike the God of Abraham, I see my God everywhere all the time.

My God is more real than you and I, for when we perish my God still abides, forever...

"The ground of all being" is a kind of god I could get behind. The esssense of all that is. When you get right down to it everything is nothing and nothing is everything. Even what I'm saying right now doesn't mean anything. Language is mostly nothing but it serves as a signpost that points to everywhere.

So if you are going to pray to the "ground of all being" or "the esseense of all that is" it's best just to sit quietly and do nothing. THat's what the whole earth, including god, is doing. Unfortunately you can't ask to be healed or for anything to be different than it is now because this is it. This is all there is when you believe in "the ground of all being".

...the Abrahamic religions
If you want to learn about them, there's also thousands of world mythology books.

The thing I like about (most) pagans is they're actually refreshing to talk with; Some may be whacky (and I know plenty of those) but at least they're open-minded and don't attempt to steamroll their views over you.

I was a goddess worshiping pagan for about a decade.I left it behind because it no longer suited my growth as a person. In neo-paganism, it's generally accepted that all the goddesses are just different aspects of one goddess. Not all pagans believe in gods in the literal sense that Abrahamic religions do. Like Heidi, I suggest you read up on it if you're really interested.

Any reading suggestions outside of the wiki page Heidi linked?

And thanks all who gave a response (both the serious and the humorous ones, but thanks especially to the serious ones). I would like to at least learn a bit more about the outside world, even though I doubt it will change my metaphysical views.

The Power of Myth and the Hero's Journey. Carl Jung and even a little bit of Freud is helpful (at least for me) in understanding the pull of paganism.

If you want to understand the beginnings of modern paganism and/or Wicca, read up on Crowley (Not just an Ozzy Osborne song), Gardner, and Alexander.

For mythology and gods and goddesses, there are so many, that i couldn't recommend them all. I do, however, encourage people to read up on more than the Norse, Greek, or Roman myths and Pantheons to see the similarities and differences across the world. This is one of my faves: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=encyclopedia%20of%20gods%20and%20goddesses

And another: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Witches-Witchcraft-Rosemary-Guiley/dp/B002CADXKK/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396468621&sr=1-1&keywords=the+encyclopedia+of+witchcraft



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 03:57PM by Itzpapalotl.

I gave you the silly flying spaghetti monster post already. For serious, I take a completely anthropological view that the religion* instinct is a psychological 'technology' that was stridently selected for because it permitted groups of people to cohere that are far, far larger than without. Before religion groups of hunter-gatherers were restricted to at most 100-ish directly related families before insurmountable frictions cause them to split or disintegrate.

Those larger groups cheerfully genocided those who could not get their religion on. It was an arms race, in other words, and was so crucial that the instinct is just that: innate. The form of expression varies, but the function of cohering groups of selfish individuals for mutual protection is fundamental.

There are a number of books that outline this idea. One of my favorites is the first part of Robert Wright's _The Evolution of God_. As far as I'm concerned, once he gets into the monotheisms you can stop.

* When I say religion, I mean beyond regular mystical or spiritual sentiments. Basically, if it has a hierarchy, it's a religion.

My time travel gods are unknown and may be Abrahamic after all. I just have not had any revelation or visitation or communication from them. My prayers are a bit like this:

Time gods,

Am I really praying to you or anyone? I need xxxxx, but I'm not sure if I need it because of the path the world has taken since my last prayer that May or may not have been answered. Am I asking this which may counter a prayer from an alternate space time continuum? If so will you make it known unto me?

So far just crickets.

"Time Gods," huh? Are those anything like Time Lords?

Ummmm not sure. Those might be like the Jehovah's Witness equivalent. I still seek further time and knowledge about this religion that May or may not exist.

Mine has myriad noodley appendages with which to interact with myriad Big Things in the universe. He also flies. And tastes good, especially with parmesan cheese.

Not really. I'm an atheist.

Okay, as I've mentioned, I grew up in a multi-cultural, multi-religious family. For me, that was great, most of the time. Most everything else about my family and childhood was miserable, but all of the cultural and most of the religious diversity was wonderful.

There were both Buddhists and followers (in a very private and quiet way) of Native American religious traditions. My grandmother, who was publicly a very strong, but tolerant Christian, never stopped loving and honoring her ancestors' middle American, Plains Indian beliefs and traditions. She had a huge influence on my thinking and understanding of the the world, both the physical one and the spiritual one.

Some of those beliefs that she held are summed up by nonbelievers as "Animism" and "Shamanism" --- but the things you read if you read European, Christian writers on the subject, and popular summaries of such beliefs, are wild distortions of what my grandmother believed. (I would bet that there are as many different interpretations of Native American beliefs as there are people who think about them.)

So, with all of that disclaimer out of the way, here is my grandmother's private cosmology, which I grew up with, and still hold very closely to, in advancing age:

There is a spirit of love, compassion, wisdom, and healing which exists both inside and outside of us all. It is a spiritual matter, not a physical being. We physical beings also have a spiritual side, and are joined in that one great spirit, whether we know it or not. The spirit is pure good, but is not seen as being omniscient or omnipotent. It simply exists as a sort of unifying focus for everything good in the universe.

We can choose to act in harmony with that spirit of goodness, or choose to act in anger, hatred, cruelty, greed, and so forth. Ultimately, when we no longer have bodies, we will either unite with the spirit of goodness, or we will not. There is no judgement, heaven, or hell. No need for perfection --- those who are basically good unite with goodness, those who are basically not good maybe get lost along the way. Or maybe get another chance to get it right. I don't know. Our own primary choices and actions lead us to our final destination.

Everything has its own personal integrity. This is what the Christian, European tradition persists in calling "spirits." As in, the rocks have spirits, the trees have spirits, and so on. In my grandmother's view, the European conception is unintelligibly distorted. It was based on the misconceptions of arrogant, paternalistic foreigners, who understood new languages poorly, had little or no respect for other cultures, and started every investigation with the assumption that anything different from their Judeo-Christian beliefs was childishly silly at best and evil at worst.

My grandmother believed (and I do, too) that every rock has its own personal integrity. Also, every tree, animal, and everything else in the world. Everything in the world should be treated with respect. She talked to things (when there were no Anglos around to hear it), but she did not pray to rock gods or tree spirits. She just tried to be mindful of the worth of everything she encountered and the unity of all things (think of Carl Sagan and "star-stuff" --- fundamentally, we and all of the things around us are made up of the same material. Just arranged differently.)

Peculiargifts, that's the most interesting thing I've read for a long time.

After I left Mormonism I ended up by coincidence with a lot of Buddhist friends. I was very curious and studied with them for a while. At first it was very appealing because the goal was enlightenment. After leaving a church where the goal was complete and strict obedience, this enlightenment thing was enticing.

I lost interest quickly when after I asked why we couldn't chant in english, I was told that the "universe" only understood the rhythms of the japanese language. I have no idea if this was just an off-the-cuff answer or not, but that kind of did it for me. Plus everyone was chanting for something and these were mostly for material things. I went to one meeting and people stood and told what they had received because of chanting. One person said they were really strapped for cash and after they returned from grocery shopping that the check they paid with was in the grocery bag. It was really like a fast and testimony meeting and seemed to have little to do with enlightenment in the end.

I highly doubt that what I experienced was actually a good example of what Buddhism is all about, but that turned me off Eastern religion and left me just wanting to explore on my own. The more I looked at any religion in the world, it was just so obviously man-made and all about man's wishful thinking.

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I highly doubt that what I experienced was
> actually a good example of what Buddhism is all
> about, but that turned me off Eastern religion and
> left me just wanting to explore on my own.

That Japanese cult is truly a LOONG way from the teachings of the Buddha. :)

Buddhism is about ending your suffering by ending all your desires.

Wow. That just seems even worse. What are we without our desires? I can't comprehend that. I'll have to look into all this. You have piqued my curiosity now.

notnewatthisanymore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First, I would ask all of the non believers to
> leave their skepticism at the door for this
> thread, because I am genuinely curious, but don't
> want people to feel like they can't post without
> being attacked for their personal flavor of woo.


Irony much?

Pantheism makes some sense to me and I wouldn't be opposed to the idea that god is represented by the whole. However I also lean to nihilism.

why don't you tell me about your abrahamic gods .

How about a life of meaning found through connectivity.

Check out liology.org.

It is a synthesis of scientific discoveries on the subatomic level and ancient neo-Confucianism. (Tao+Buddhism+Confucianism)

The idea that creation may be to entropy as anti-matter is to matter is fascinating. Creation, or self-organization and voila!

It comes out of systems theory + the Chinese "li"


Anagrammy

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a life of meaning found through
> connectivity.
>
> Check out liology.org.
>
> It is a synthesis of scientific discoveries on the
> subatomic level and ancient neo-Confucianism.
> (Tao+Buddhism+Confucianism)
>
> The idea that creation may be to entropy as
> anti-matter is to matter is fascinating.
> Creation, or self-organization and voila!
>
> It comes out of systems theory + the Chinese "li"
>
>
> Anagrammy

interesting...