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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 03:59PM

I recently received the following from an upset individual wishing to convey his views against atheists who, he contended, want to force him, against his personal religious beliefs, to pay for contraceptive coverage for women. This person was defending Hobby Lobby's assertion that, given the company owner's individual religious faith, Hobby Lobby was not required to comply with the laws of the land in the area of federally-mandated aspects of health insurance policy and practice.

(Here's the cartoon: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/93e7fb175501d190a054b2198e9450284f1516ad/c=14-0-2390-1786&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/Phoenix/GenericImages/2014/03/25//1395805448001-0326hobby.jpg)


Below is the complaint (original spelling and punctuation left intact):

"Subject: Anti-Bible Contraception

"Dear Mr. Benson,

"As a catholic, I am extremely offended by your recent cartoon . . . .

"I am on Medicare and purchase a supplementary insurance plan though my former employer. It too makes me pay for contraception using my premium fess, and against my religious beliefs. I don't have any say in this either. Why? Because SOB's in Washington decides for me and against my beliefs.

"Atheist's like you don't believe in religious freedoms and represent a small minority of this nation.

"Hobby Lobby should be able to choose what they offer and not be chastised by the likes of you.

"Women have every right to choose how they use their body, BUT, not on my dime. Condoms and the such should be paid for by the women AND their partner. When does responsibility for one's actions come into play? . . .

"Left wing nut jobs like you can only ridicule Christians, not compromise in respect for their beliefs."
_____


My response:

"Dear [name deleted]--

"Ben Franklin, who was not only a founding father but also an editorial cartoonist for his own newspaper (the Pennsylvania Gazette), observed that if publishers were determined to print nothing until no one was offended, very little would be published.

That said, it is not my job to draw your partisan political viewpoints for you. Please note that my cartoons are signed by me as my personal view (not yours), and appear on the opinion pages, not the news pages. Good luck with your own art lessons. :)

"And thanks for writing."

*****


Related RfM threads:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1218257,1218257#msg-1218257

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1218559,1218559#msg-1218559

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1217105,1217105#msg-1217105



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2014 04:08PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: HangarXVIII ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:04PM

Is it just me, or does the character in that cartoon bear an uncanny resemblance to Tommy Monson?

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:10PM

. . . er, God. Hence, the resemblance. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2014 04:10PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: John_deoe ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 11:57PM

Nah..those jouwels come from the head of Elder Delaney...lolol

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Posted by: Ladello ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:17PM

Actually it looks a lot like beloved Elder Delaney

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Posted by: alyssum ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:26PM

I think the bottom line is, government shouldn't be involved in healthcare at all. He's right, it's unethical for anyone to be forced to pay for something they don't want to buy, but then that applies to his health plan too... if people were allowed to just purchase what they wanted, from a company who actually cared about their satisfaction, this ethics problem would disappear AND healthcare might actually be affordable again... my two cents.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:36PM

. . . because their God commanded them not to.

Noteworthy examples:

Mormons practicing polygamy in violation of the law.

Native Americans smoking peyote in violation of the law.

Jehovah Witnesses denying blood transfusions to minors in violation of the law.
_____


Now, as to particulars of the Justice Department's response to e Hobby Lobby's demand that it be allowed to violate ACA law in the name of God:

" . . . [I]n 1990, . . . the Court ruled that as long as a generally applicable law — that is, a law that applies generally to all citizens — is neutrally applied, it is constitutional, even though it may have some unhappy consequences for some [religious] believers. . . .

"The government [argues] that when you are a commercial enterprise [as is the case with Hobby Lobby], you may have to make choices. Here, either provide the insurance or pay a fine and let your employees go to the health care exchange to buy insurance that may include public subsidies.

"The Justice Department cites as an example a Supreme Court decision involving an Amish cabinetmaker. He was required to pay Social Security taxes for his employees, even though he viewed such payments as against his religion and even though the Social Security law at the time had significant exemptions. . . .

" . . . [T]he government, not[es] that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that the availability of contraception is a matter of public health 'necessity.' The government points to studies that have shown one-third of women would change their method of contraception if cost was not a factor and that the most effective methods are the most expensive. IUDs are 45 times more effective than the pill, given average use, and 90 times more effective than condoms. But IUDs are also the most expensive method, costing between $500 and $1,000 in one lump sum.

"The government also argues that requiring effective contraception and counseling in insurance plans is justified as a matter of gender equality.

"'For an employer to say, I will cover all the basic essential health needs for men, but I am picking and choosing for women, and I am simply going to take out contraception or specific forms of medically approved contraception, it is sex discrimination,' says Marsha Greenberger, co-president of the National Women's Law Center. It is sex discrimination, she argues, because such selectivity regarding an essential part of women's health care costs forces women to pay more for their care."

"The Hobby Lobby corporation and its owners counter that the simple answer to these arguments is to have the government pay for contraception.

"The government replies that is no answer. Otherwise, the government would end up paying for everything."

("Hobby Lobby Contraceptive Case Goes Before Supreme Court," by Nina Totenberg, 25 March 2014, at: http://www.npr.org/2014/03/25/293956170/hobby-lobby-contraceptive-case-goes-before-supreme-court)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2014 04:55PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:45PM

By that logic, we wouldn't all kinds of things provided by the government.

How many people just don't want to pay taxes and would come up with all kinds of things that they simply don't want to pay for. Don't have kids? Why should you pay for public schools? Don't have a car? Why are you paying for roads? Live out in the boonies? Why is your taxes going to street lights on roads you don't drive on? Think your neighborhood is safe? Why are you paying for police?

Think I'm kidding? This has been put in practice all over the country where people force their politicians to not raise taxes or get rid of existing ones. There are places where people are paying for the street lamps in front of their homes personally, which costs more than via a government contract and they somehow think that this is a good deal. Worse, some police departments simply don't have the manpower to handle the issues that their cities face simply because they've been forced to shrink due to lack of budgets. All because people simply don't think they should have to pay for things they don't like.

Health care shouldn't be something that forces families into bankruptcy. It should be available to everyone.

By saying that Hobby Lobby doesn't have to obey the same rules as everyone else, i.e. providing the same level of health care as all the other companies, based solely on the religious views of the owners says that they can enforce their religious views on their employees... Using your logic, that shouldn't be allowed, it should be considered unethical, because now their employees can't choose to use the same contraceptives as everyone else. And I don't for a second think that all the employees of Hobby Lobby share the same religious views.

Part of freedom from religion in this country means that you don't get to tell other people what they can and can't do based on your religion. We do things based on what's right.

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Posted by: NoMoNoHow ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 07:51PM

Jesus encouraged people to give everything they could, and promised that we should support everyone in need. Just like socialism... AND OBAMACARE.

What a shame that rightwing (i.e. fascist) Christians have no idea what Jesus actually is said to have preached.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: April 05, 2014 02:42AM

. . . as it claims it would have to pay for its employees' contraceptive insurance coverage.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2014 08:35PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:28PM

That's a great cartoon, Steve. I have yet to see one of these religious types protesting the use of insurance money for viagra.

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 04:44PM

That'd be great, our population would be under one third by now, considering no vaccines, antibiotics for the poor we'd do a great job keeping rich alive and getting rid of poor and less fortunate.

And I'd start asking my doctors & nurses to serve those who has cash......

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Posted by: onendagus ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 05:49PM

Um, it wasn't some "sobs" in Washington. Well I guess they probably do spend most of their time there but they are actually his and everyone else's elected representatives that voted for this law. It wasn't a minority pushing their views on someone. If he doesn't like the law he should contact his elected representative.

If he thinks the law is violating his constitutional rights he should file a suit which is just what Hobby Lobby did.

I really get sick of hearing that it is the "mean old govt" forcing their will on everyone. Wake up! We live in a Republic. Your elected representatives enacted the health care reform act and made it a law. If you don't like it, elect someone else.

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Posted by: Latter Day Ain't ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 07:54PM

"If you don't like it, elect someone else."

I'm glad to see that politics are so easily manipulated in your favour - at least in your world. Reality is a little different

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Posted by: stoppedtheinsanity ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 05:57PM

I'm just laughing out loud from your response to that letter! That is some funny stuff! "good luck with your art lessons. And thanks for writing"...

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 06:00PM

As a tax-paying citizen I'm INCENSED that public roads that I
pay for are used by people to drive to clinics to obtain
contraceptives. I'm APPALLED that public water from the
government-subsidized water-works is piped into clinics to be
used in performing abortions.

Oh the persecution!

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 06:04PM

I saw this posted on another site today:

"If you had functioning thinking abilities . . ."

I think this applies here.

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Posted by: armtothetriangle ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 07:43PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/hobby-lobby-invests-in-em_n_5070279.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Apparently the Greens religious freedoms are threatened if they offer insurance to their employees that covers the use of these medications, but not if they offer their employees investments to profit from the use the same.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 07:55PM

And this seems to get at the heart of the problem. They don't want to spend money, they want to get money.

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Posted by: horsegirl ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 08:12PM

I want to know why the Greens feel that only their religious beliefs count? What about their employees and their religious beliefs or lack there of? They are forcing their beliefs on others.

I also find it interesting that their insurance covered the very thing they are complaining about before the ACA was the law. They didn't seem to have a religious problem with it then.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: April 04, 2014 11:12PM

this is what happens when corporations become people.
They get religion.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: April 05, 2014 12:07AM

Steve, as the poster-boy for a constitutional convention for the uh, adjustment of the notion of free speech rights, is it any wonder you get pummeled by such persistent pernicious poorly penned prose?

Oh yeah, I forgot.

It's your job.

Good to see ya back here on your other yyob.


:o)

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