Scream!!! I have never heard any other religion use those words or even discuss the subject of free agency. I'm so tired of people saying to me, "well god gave you your free agency", blah, blah, blah!!

Are there any other mormon words or sayings that you just can't stand?

I hate that saying because like so many things in TSCC they say it but don't mean it.

The word "reverent" is such a mormon word! I've gone to several other churches and none of them use the word reverent.

There is no agency. It's all obey.

Daughter of God, choice spirits, "follow in righteousness". I followed dh in righteousness right out the door.

I thought recently how free agency basically sets you up for a choiceless choice:

"Sure, you can do what you choose, but if you don't choose what the church wants you to choose, you're damned."

Lehi teaches about opposition in all things, which also further sets up the black and white thinking--and then says you can choose Jesus and liberty or Satan and bondage.

I also hate how the things that are the first to jump out at members as "wrong" are really non-issues for people being more Christ-like (another crappy Mo-ism): someone smokes? Horrifying! They wear immodest clothes? AH! Say it ain't so! They engage in the "natural man"? Heaven forbid!

Let's forget that they are verbally abusive to their families, judgmental, and hypocritical. Because Jesus loved abusive, judgmental hypocrites. Remember that part in the Bible where he said, "Blessed are the abusive"? "I will definitely keep the hypocrites in my mouth, rather than spewing them out"?

Ugh. Ranted more than I wanted to.

Yup. Free agency as long as you agree with them. There is no free agency in tscc. None whatsoever....

Yes, Mormon free agency means you have the freedom to obey or choose to die and be damned. Forgetting, of course, that their own doctrine teaches it was Satan's plan in the pre-existence to demand obedience in all things.

I thought they quit talking about that, it didn't fit in with their totalitarian mindset

The phrase "The Church is perfect, but the people are not".The church is the people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 11:26AM by Demon of Kolob.

now "moral agency"

…call BS!!!

That was what I was hoping to read when I saw this topic's heading. However, I really was more expecting something along the lines of scream, yell, or even puke.

This so-called "free-agency" BS truly is just one of many examples of the Orwellian Mormon mindset.

Before ca 1985 the church supposedly existed to help you reach your highest potential and become a god.

By about 1985 the morg had switched from "free agency" to simple agency and insistence on OBEDIENCE.
That's what happens when an organization makes it up as they go along.

Of course, few of us realized the gradual change as it was happening - which is exactly what SLC intended.

I knew something was going wrong but could not put my finger on it.
We lived in So. California and info was hard to get.

My AHA moment came the minute DNA did not match and the American Indians turned out to have Asian DNA.
It meant that Mormonism was a LIE.

I just thought of another "mormon" word that I hate. I hate the word WORTHY!

I recently realized that the root word of "worthy" is "worth". If you are not worthy, you have no worth.

I found the realization shocking, to say the least.

They used to use "free agency" in the RLDS Church.

How about, are you "morally clean?'

I also can't stand when they spit out the "Glory of God is Intelligence" words, implying that the church is in favor of its members using their intelligence and pursuing intelligence. Really??? what a joke. The only intelligence they want the members to have is to be able to get their tithing $$$$ to the cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 12:22PM by presleynfactsrock.

More a concept i can't stand. If you have a challenge while you're in the church and faithful, it is a trial of your faith, purifying fire. If you have a challenge while out of the church, inactive or unworthy, it is because you are cursed or being punished. BS BS BS!!!!

Faithful, worthy, immoral, morally clean, righteous, reverent, priesthood, priest rafts, the veil, the temple, the chapel, the gospel, the family, the plan of happiness, the atonement, resurrection vs redemption, restoration, apostasy, basically the misappropriation of vocabulary to suit their own ends and obfuscate what's really going on

What really pisses me off is that I had a natural resistance to all the BS in TSCC when I was an investigator, but I joined and now after sixteen years of repair ion it all makes a lot of sense. Grrrr.

Investigator- should be changed to prey

How about Grace vs. Works?

They have to keep using the word "free" because it's the most expensive religion and grants its members the fewest choices of any I know of save perhaps the Amish.

If you use your free agency to choose other than what the G15 decreed, then you will be punished. Last time I looked, you are not "free" to choose if punishment/rewards are dispensed.

If Satan offered to force people to righteousness, my take is that the LDS church is following his plan.



Kathleen Waters

Agreed!

All people make choices, this is Nothing New to people of faith.

What Mormonism often-commonly has done is HiJack ideas - concepts - principles well known & understood by others (co-opt) to make them appear as new or unique to Mormonism.

This process is 'part of the Plan' to spreading Mormonism.

Nowadays it's "agency". For some strange reason they phased out the word "Free"!

Here's one person's explanation of why agency isn't free.

http://scripturestudyjournal.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/moral-agency-vs-free-agency-is-there-a-difference-2/

It basically says we are bought with a price (so not free as in costs nothing) and we have consequences for our choices (so not free from consequences). It also says we are always on somebody's team, so there is no real freedom there. We can only choose what do within the set rules.

So, to Mormons, agency isn't really freedom, thus there is no "free agency".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 01:13PM by lmontr33.

I hate that term. To Mormons free agency means you are free to be exactly like them or you are free to be a disgusting sinner. Those are the only two choices their free agency refers to which means neither word in the equation means much.

I have had Mormons say to me after figuring out what I am about, "Well . . .God did give you your free agency." which is used as a dig at you for choosing to sin. It is one of the prime phrases that illustrates the special brand of Mormon arrogance.

^ ^ ^
This exactly

it's the Mormon/LDS brand on personal choices, which we ALL Make.

I was told as a youth (within the past 5 years) to use the term "moral agency" instead of "free agency". The reasoning behind the change was that agency isn't "free" because we can't choose the consequences of our actions. This is even worse, imo, since now the concept of agency itself is forcing you to follow church directives or suffer the consequences.
I used to think the change was a good one and made a lot of sense. Now I see how manipulative it was. I'm so glad I'm finished digging out of heaping piles of guilt.

Moral Agency? Wow. Again, the choice is you get to choose be like us Mormons--moral- or you can choose to be immoral. What they are really saying is choose to be Mormon or choose to go to hell. See? You have a choice!

It is so lame. What stunted thinking.

> we can't choose the
> consequences of our actions.

This was always a red herring. "Bad" (as defined by TSCC) choices do have consequences, but they are not always bad consequences. Further, "good" (as defined by TSCC) choices have consequences too -- some of which are actually really bad!

To top it off, TSCC has the gall to accuse the world of calling evil good and good evil! I have to shake my head at the irony.

Of course you have agency, the boss insists upon it!