So my 9 year old son was visiting my TBM ex-wife and her family over the Easter weekend. The night before Easter, they had a huge get-together at family member's house who lives in a swampy area.

When we picked him up, he was all excited to tell us that he had participated in killing a cottonmouth and copperhead. My ex-wife was all excited and showed us pictures of the snakes.

I had an uneasy feeling but thought "well, he must have been under adult supervision."

Wrong.

He had been exploring around in the dark with flashlights with a 13 year old cousin and his 14 year old friend. They had a paddle and a hatchet.

When they encountered the venomous snakes, they would hit them with the paddle to stun them and walk right in to striking distance to kill them with the hatchet.

My son killed the copperhead on his own.

Am I wrong in being very bothered by this? My ex hand her family thought that it was totally cool for a 9 year old to kill a highly venomous snake in the dark. Each of these snakes can bite even after they have been decapitated.

I didn't say anything to my ex, but I gave a safety lesson to my son. I know kids will be kids and it's good to explore, but there safety needs to be considered.

What do y'all think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 11:01AM by ragingphoenix.

It sounds highly irresponsible of her.

I agree.

I forgot to ask how they carried the heads back to the garage for pictures. The cottonmouth's mouth was wide open and white with fangs showing.

I could instantly ID both snakes.

I get why the kid would be excited, but the adults? Glorifying killing a creature that didn't need to die seems sick to me. Something I would expect from a little boy who has yet to learn, not grown adults. I could see relief that the kid didn't get bit, if running into the snake was an accident and he successfully defended himself (maybe a bit of pride at a resourceful son). The way you put it, it sounds like they were excited in a "our hunter got his first kill" kind of way. Not cool, IMO.

notnewatthisanymore Wrote:
Glorifying killing a creature that didn't
> need to die seems sick to me.

NOT COOL with me either. Senseless really.

Yeah, you should never purposefully approach a venomous snake, period. Those things are extremely dangerous and even trained professional animal handlers get bit from time to time. Snakes can be very aggressive and of course as a wild creature they are very unpredictable. Worst of all they can be unbelievably quick. I have a pet snake, and when she strikes I can't even follow her with my eyes at a distance and she can reach much much further than you would first think given her size. If she were venomous I wouldn't go within 20 feet of her.

I agree, one shouldn't get close on purpose to a venomous snake, especially baby snakes as they haven't learned to control their venom. Even then, it's still not a good idea to go up to a venomous snake, as adults will strike if they feel threatened.

1. I think it's not something to brag about b/c it will give Little Phoenix the impression that it's a valued act. It's sometimes necessary to kill the snakes but it's not something to make a fuss over.

2. Very wise to have the safety discussion with your son.

3. It was good that the kids knew what to do to protect themselves which I guess comes naturally if you live in a swampy area. My reaction to the snakes would have been 'Oh, ****!" ;-)

The last time I had to kill a rattlesnake, its head sat there for a good 20 minutes hissing and threatening me. Not joking.

Kids that age go out & kill things because they can, unless they're taught properly that you only do it when you have to....

sounds like the shiz of snakes. We know from reading the true book of Mormon that this can happen when you cut of someone's head.

Haha!

I just didn't know if I should bring it up to my ex, or just leave it with my conversation with him.

She and I get along well and stay out of each others business regarding parenting, and he is still alive. If he had been bitten, he would have been able to alert the adults at the house and get to a hospital.

I kind is think it isn't my place to bring it up with her, despite really wanting to.

Aside from the talk with your son it sounds like you have already had (re: respect for life and safety around dangerous animals), the immaturity of your ex would be best left alone, and teaching your son will keep him safe in the future (which is what matters here). Teach your son as best you can, he will learn for himself that his mom isn't the real adult here.

Thanks. This is along the lines of what I was thinking but I just needed to bounce it off someone. There isn't a parenting manual for these situations.

Don't kill the critters. ever. if there is a god, and there prolly isn't, he made the wild stuff.

A good snake is a DEAD snake. If your kid had a gun, then he could have shot it.

Time to flame me. LMAO

I agree with those that suggest that you turn this teaching moment into something important with your son.

Yes, there are times to kill a critter, if it is threatening you and you are prepared. However, killing for sport, in your view, is not acceptable.But understand, however, that is acceptable to others.

Kids are going to explore and parents are not able to watch them every single moment. Normally, this is not of much concern, except in divorce when everyone's care and concern is heightened.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 03:13PM by SusieQ#1.

My concern isn't so much the killing for sport. They were actually hunting frogs.

It's more the idea that our 9 year old was out there taking on pit-vipers without adult supervision in the dark with a paddle and a hatchet, and his mother thought it was cool.

ragingphoenix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My concern isn't so much the killing for sport.
> They were actually hunting frogs.
>
> It's more the idea that our 9 year old was out
> there taking on pit-vipers without adult
> supervision in the dark with a paddle and a
> hatchet, and his mother thought it was cool.


This is a difference in culture. Many parts of the country would find this behavior by the kids totally acceptable and commendable. And apparently, mom does too.

are often misunderstood. Your ex-wife that is not the reptiles.

Maybe I am I too cautious, but I would talk to her. Clearly frog hunting in a swamp in the dark without an adult could have led to serious disaster. If you don't say anything, this is likely to be a cool activity that is repeated for positive attention. And if a snake strikes in the dark (not unlikely) you will regret not shutting this down.

I don't think you need to yell or anything. I would just tell her that after thinking about it, what could have happened is pretty scary. Don't be accusatory, try to get her to draw the obvious conclusion (this isn't a good idea) herself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 04:58PM by vh65.

ragingphoenix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I wrong in being very bothered by this? My ex
> hand her family thought that it was totally cool
> for a 9 year old to kill a highly venomous snake
> in the dark. Each of these snakes can bite even
> after they have been decapitated.

They probably think "The Spirit" was protecting him like them with their garments.

We lived in a rural area when I was a kid. My father was very savvy about snakes. He taught me how to recognize a pit viper, and there were plenty of rattlesnakes in our area.

His general attitude was that they were here first, it's their territory, and we need to back off and not engage in aggressive behavior. And, of course, to watch the snake to be sure it is getting the message.

We often picked up and handled king snakes, always gently and with great fascination. (Even though these are not venomous, they can bite too if irritated enough, but it never happened.)

So I grew up believing that if you show respect to a snake, it will generally be happy to go its way and allow you to go yours.

I had never met a cottonmouth until I was an adult. We had several storage boxes as yet unpacked in our garage and my little son and I were working on these. We heard a noise and I saw a dark tail slithering around the corner of one box. I wasn't unduly alarmed. I took the broom I was using and swatted at the box the snake had slithered behind, fully confident that the snake would beat feet (as it were) to get out of there. That had always been my experience before.

But this one turned around, came at me with its mouth open (totally white mouth, hence the name) and hissing. I yelled at my son to get out of the garage and into the house, and I used a powerful sweep of my broom to send the snake flying halfway across the garage as I ran too.

I had never met an aggressive snake before, and that one scared me. I would DEFINITELY not want a child anywhere near one if it could be avoided.

Cottonmouths are notoriously aggressive. They are one of the few snakes who aren't necessarily happy to go their own way and allow you to do the same.

I went tubing down a North Florida river a couple years ago with a BF. We're having a pleasant float, just minding our own business, enjoying the flora and fauna, when we heard gunfire. We floated around a bend in the river and came upon this other couple who were "parked" on the riverbank. Dude had spotted a snake sunning itself on a tree branch and floated over to it, pulled out his pistol and shot it.

There was no reason to go after that snake. It was totally minding its own business on the riverbank. But it was a cottonmouth so that may have been why he shot it. The incident left us wondering: Who brings a piece with them on a tubing trip?

“In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, ‘Let them alone—don’t hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety.’ The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger.”
Documentary History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 71–72

I doubt he believed it himself, but the profit said don't kill rattlesnakes unless you're hungry. A stopped clock is right twice a day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 09:21PM by warningswears.

Sounds like the kids did it themselves and the adult sort of bragged after the fact.

A snake's first encounter with a human is usually its last encounter with a human.

Venomous snakes on my land will die.