I've been ruminating ;) over this ever since the most recent saga of bare shoulders became part of our American national discourse, and I think I MAY know the underlying, but REAL, answer...

I say "most recent saga" because the initial, break-out, saga entered the national spotlight six years ago, in 2008, during the campaign which led to the initial election of Barack Obama to the US presidency--and that initial anti-bare-shoulder meme became a pretty specific complaint against ONE American citizen: Michelle Obama. (For those who don't know, Michelle Obama has GREAT bare shoulders, which she keeps fit in a daily morning workout, and which are very frequently photographed when she is wearing the clothes she chooses to wear to official, semi-official, and private events.)

Many things which could NOT be said in MOST "polite" society about the nation's first African-American First Lady, COULD be said about--basically--her supposed lack of social class (read: her race) by her choice of bare shoulder dresses and tops instead of the supposedly upper-class Barbara Bush/Nancy Reagan cover-up style. The problem was the photo archives, because when they were searched, all kinds of bare shoulder dresses and tops being worn by past First Ladies surfaced, including the supposedly classiest First Lady in our nation's history, Jacqueline Kennedy, who had a great fondness for wearing bare shoulder dresses to official functions--and there are literally thousands of photos to prove it.

Which made it a bit of a problem as a feasible way to attack Michelle Obama directly, especially among the supposedly elevated (by social class or by membership in the ruling classes and their immediate coteries).

But attacking the race of the residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue by means of attacks on bare shoulders became a sort of tried-and-true method of political battle and political payback (for winning the election).

By November, 2012 (the last presidential election), and certainly by the time that the Republican candidate for that office did NOT win that office, attacking "bare shoulders"--I think--became a way to subtly attack the continuing residents at the White House through slut shaming ANY female who dared show her bare shoulders.

I think that, whether the proles consciously realize it or not, they have directly entered into the anti-the-current-residents-of-the-White House political wars every time they slut shame a female (even toddlers, but most especially attractive women of all ages), because--whether they realize it or not--the real target is the one living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

They're saying, in their own unique dialect, that ANY female who has nice shoulders, or shows her bare shoulders, is JUST as "classless" as the black woman in the White House.

And the more I think about this, the more I think that there is a chunk of truth in what I have just said.

I agree that attacks on michelle obama are usually race based. The bare shoulders thing is just ridiculous, no one but wacko mobots would see shoulders as an issue. And many first ladies showed their shoulders is they had the body to pull it off. I say go michelle!

For some it is race,but a lot of the same people hated Hillary just as much.

Most other presidents were about 20 years older. Their wives looked good (Ks and Os) and wore clothes appropriate to their figures.

Shoulders were an issue before Michelle Obama was ever heard of.I taught school in Utah starting in the early 70s and it was an issue then and until I retired. Interestingly it was not an issue when I was attending school also in Utah. Go figure and that was in the day when girls had to wear dresses

Shoulders may have been in some school dress codes, but shoulders are not seen as sexual by anyone but mormons. In the 70s in maryland you could not show your stomach and no halters, spaghetti straps, or tank tops, but a sleeveless shirt was ok. I cant believe how f-ed up mobots are about shoulers. Just another example of how weird they are.

And I don't know that jackie or other first ladies were attacked for bare shoulders. Sleeveless dresses were very common in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. what a cult.

You nailed it.

C'mon now, it was explained to me way back in the 80s that the shoulders are the butt cheeks of the arms. And you'd no more put them on display than you would the posterior set. Which of course lead to the natural extension of mandated sleeve length to the elbows by the higher law morgbots I was owned by.

Didn't women's garment tops used to have longer sleeves? When did this cap sleeve thing begin? I didn't used to be able to tell my parent's garments apart except for the crotch arrangement.

WinksWinks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> C'mon now, it was explained to me way back in the
> 80s that the shoulders are the butt cheeks of the
> arms.

Definitely a winner!

OP is stretching a bit, I think.

I saw a judge toss a lawyer out of his courtroom once for not wearing a tie (this was not in Utah, btw).

A lot of judges have courtroom decorum rules that go well beyond what's published on the government websites.

It could have been the bailiff misunderstanding the dress code.

It could have been that one of the judges seated that day was known by the bailiff to have weird decorum rules, and the bailiff was trying to save the reporter some embarrassment.

Judges make up wacky and arbitrary rules all the time, and I think it should be noted the reporter changed based on an off-hand remark by the bailiff (who, it should be noted, is typically not entitled to admit or eject people from the courtroom).

I know this is fiction,but there was an episode of "The Good Wife" where a judge.reprimanded Alicia for wearing a pant suit.Judges have a lot of discretion

That bothered me about Ally wearing micro-minis with her blazers on "Ally McBeal". What Allu was wearing was fine for a nightclub, not the courtroom.

Yep. Had a BF who was a lawyer, who told me the women in his firm always wore skirts to court because there were still judges who objected to them wearing pants. This was just over ten years ago, in a major, non-morridor city. Unbelievable.

Yes. Judges can set their own rules. And the suit thing is big in Utah where it is a show of membership in the patriarchy club.

My former boyfriend practiced law in Utah County and did a lot of criminal defense. He and a certain Mormon judge had a mutual dislike of each other. BF pushed the envelope, and also had no particular regard for any high-up mormon muckety-mucks.

Anyway, BF got cancer and his chemo treatments would last for several days at a time during which he had a fanny pack with a bag that had a tube attached to a portacath in his chest. So he couldn't button his top button or tighten his tie when he wore it. So Judge H. used that as an opportunity to throw him out of his courtroom. He said it was no excuse to appear in court with his tie loosened and he could come back when he wasn't receiving treatment or when he died whichever came first. Well, death came first.

A few years later, same good Mormon judge was arrested on cocaine possession and use. Although he got off on misdemeanor drug charges and probation (they were afraid his life would be in danger in jail from other inmates who he incarcerated on drug charges). No. Really? But he was disbarred and now does mediation or something and is still a low life.

I was so disappointed that BF didn't get to witness the fall of Judge R.H., Jr. I went to the cemetery and told him all about it. And I tried to enjoy the Karma Show for him.

Mormons seem to confuse sleeveless with tank tops. It happened to my daughter at Girls' Camp. She was wearing a nice, collared, cotton, sleeveless shirt (this was in the High Sierras, so....hot weather) and they told her she had to change it. "No tank tops allowed" they said.

WTF's wrong with these people?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 09:14PM by Tiny Tears.

Exactly!

Mobots view shoulders as the victorians viewed ankles. You can sexualize anything.

Since garments don't allow bare shoulders, mormons think no one should be showing them.

True confessions. I dressed my daughters in short sleeved shirts--no tank tops, no sleeveless. I drop kicked the Mormon church about the time they turned into young women, so they got to wear whatever they wanted to when they had actual stuff to cover up. My daughter told me, during her last visit, "It's good actually. I'm super fair and I'm the only one of my friends without freckles on their shoulders." Ridiculous Mormon modesty--it's good for sun screen.

A t-shirt is only SPF 6. So, it's not that good.