Have fun with this one.


http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/14577

Myth #4: The Church has changed its position on same-sex attraction.

"There shouldn’t be a perception or an expectation that the Church’s doctrines or position have changed or are changing. It’s simply not true......." - Elder Christofferson


An as apostle you'd think he would have read Kimball's 'Miracle of Forgiveness' or listened to Packer's recent talk before it was hastilly edited....etc.

Change the doctrine and then doctor history to pretend it was never changed.


Just look how SWK tried to drum all gays out of BYU. In the 1970s, you could be exed just for saying you were gay, just like Leonard Matlovich, the first gay man on the cover of time in 1975. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Matlovich
Today they pretend you can be gay and Mormon, just as long as you live like a monk for the rest of your life. The church has dramatically changed its stance on gays since the 1970s and will continue to do so, just has it has with blacks and with women.

In the 1980s, working women were discouraged. Now the majority of LDS mothers have full time jobs. The church evolves with society and then pretends it never changed or that the changes were the result of ex post facto revelations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 10:28AM by axeldc.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

How come that scripture they use about the man looking at the woman means thoughts are as actions, except not in this case.

Serious question: What does tscc suggest they do?!

Counseling may work if you are so depressed and desperate they convince you to get married. But if counseling doesn't work you don't have to get married or have kids even if you want them. Enjoy your single, celibate, childless life. Or, you know, you could leave and be happy.

One of the critical steps in my leaving the LDS Church was discovering that they knew precious little about homosexuality, other than they don't like it. They would be perfectly happy to ex every gay man and woman and move on except for one inconvenient fact: good heterosexual Mormon couples keep having gay babies. As it becomes easier for gays to live open lives in the US, Canada and Western Europe, more and more Mormons are discovering that they have gay friends and relatives in the church, sometimes even their own siblings or children. This makes wholesale condemnation tricky for GAs, some of whom have their own gay kith and kin.

They are trying to create some accommodation so they don't appear as heartless assholes while at the same time keeping the heart of their antigay message intact. Of course it is ridiculous to say you can be gay (or suffer from SSA) as long as you don't have sex. That puts a burden on gays that no other LDS adult has to face:a permanent ban on having a loving partner. LDS gays become defacto monks in a religion that worships families.

I hate the term 'suffer' from SSA. What the hell? The only reason anyone suffers from it is because of prejudicial judgy homophobes. If it weren't for them there wouldn't be any more suffering from SSA than there would be from OSA.

And as far as gay couples not having families of their own, that's a church imposed standard, not a SSA imposed standard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 11:12AM by minnieme.

"Struggle" is the same as "suffer" for me.

The struggling and suffering I endured sprang from minding myself a believing member of a cult that was fraudulent and hateful toward me.

The struggling and suffering ended when I left.

"...good heterosexual Mormon couples keep having gay babies. "

How do TBMs explain to themselves the reality of gay people being born to white-and-delightsome, true-blue, pioneer-stock mormon families? What is whispered behind the person's back- is it assumed that they were "less-valiant" in the pre-existence? If they weren't choice spirits in the pre-existence, why were they given a choice earthly family?

For years it was like having a pregnant teenager or a meth addict in the family. People clucked their tongues and shook their heads, "oh what a shame that he was seduced by Satan. Even the elect will be deceived blah blah blah."

Only after more and more people came out have they started to second guess this judgmental attitude. They have also noticed that many family members leave the church when a gay Mormon comes out. I have known several parents and siblings leave over the way their gay relative was treated.

I still get it all the time. Just last week, one of my friends I've known since was 6 flat out told me that he was just more valiant than myself and 3 other guys he knows who came out. I replied, "I know it is so hard being a middle class heterosexual white male in the LDS Church."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 05:23PM by axeldc.

I love that the site is aiming to help families on "how to deal with same sex attraction," like a family deals with a very sick loved one or finding out that grandpa smuggles drugs on the weekend.

I'm not even gay and that offended me -- especially with the whole "nice nasty (Southern phraseology)" tone of this piece.

Barf.

I noticed that too. I went back and read it as if they were talking about suicidal thoughts instead. "You are fine as long as you only think about suicide but don't kill youself. Good luck." As in, not much they can help with your weird wired brain. Thats all they got.

uh-oh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed that too. I went back and read it as if
> they were talking about suicidal thoughts instead.
> "You are fine as long as you only think about
> suicide but don't kill youself. Good luck." As in,
> not much they can help with your weird wired
> brain. Thats all they got.


Great analogy: suicidal people -- just don't think about suicide and you won't jump that bridge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 10:44AM by newcomer.

I really hate the term same sex attraction, and I hate the way they repeat it over and over like it is a disorder or worse yet a choice, which according to this post we really aren't sure whether it's nature or nurture. So really either way it's the parents 'fault' because, either they were genetically predisposed to have this 'disorder' or they created it. AUUUUUUUUUgh.

Then there's this:
Elder Quentin L. Cook said. “Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.”

Because if you are attracted to someone of the same sex, you just don't have the right to have a relationship. Nope, only opposite attraction people have that right.

How is it possible not to hear the stupid?

I can't imagine living or recommending that someone live a life where one can't have sex with someone he or she is attracted to.

How can anyone with a straight face tell another person to live a sex-less life (and one free of masturbation) because they're attracted to the same sex?

Just cut the bvllsh!t already. In my short life I've seen same-sex go from taboo and being a choice to it being taboo, not a choice, and OK as long as sex isn't happening.

My goodness--make up your bigoted mind already.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 11:13AM by newcomer.

No one who doesn't discriminate against gays uses the term against gays. It's like calling a black person someone who suffers from excessive skin pigmentation disorder (ESPD). Blacks do not consider their skin tone a disease and gay people don't consider their sexual orientation an affliction to overcome or suffer through.

The only plague affecting gays is homophobia, just like the only problem black people suffered was racism.

Blatant lies.

Ive been counseled (LESS THAN A YEAR AGO) to marry a straight woman.

That I will be cured if I "try"

That it is a choice...

And so much other BS.

The thing is the church is now very sneaky in its approach. A lot of these things aren't said outright anymore, but they are certainly suggested. And also the held beliefs of many.

Its just another thing everyone believes but simply doesn't talk about outright, like polygamy or kolob.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 01:02PM by nonsequiter.

One of the biggest lies TSCC tells is that there is a single standard of behavior for straights and gays -- no difference. It is celibacy before marriage and fidelity after.

However, when two gay people kiss on Temple Square, they are ejected by Security. Clearly, this would not happen to a straight couple.

And what would the bishop do if a gay person had his arm wrapped around his partner in Sacrament Meeting?

Two gays holding hands on campus at BYU would not be tolerated.

So, TSCC tries to say it has a single standard but it does not.

Yep. They like to pretend that the rules are the same for everyone...

recently to marry a woman.

As usual, like most things they say, it is all bullshit. My dealings with the leaders over this issue was what started my journey outside the lds church. In 1983, they told me my boyfriend was DAMNED if he didn't CHANGE to straight.

My take on the bit (after talking to too many leaders) about going a lifetime without sex is that most of these guys I tend to believe only had sex for reproduction, so if they have to go without it, gays can, too.

Like I believe "themaster" said on another thread, that his bishop said that if the men asked their wives to take their garments off during sex, he would excommunicate them, and that they were to have sex with the garments between them and only in missionary position. I've heard the same thing.

Mormonism is about lack of intimacy for everyone and NO SEX (or a limited amount for breeders).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 02:04PM by cl2.

Told by a mission president

Then a stake president

Then by two different bishops.

It was heavily implied that if I just worked at it, I would have access to "all the blessings HF intended for me"

My patriarchal blessing also explicitly says to seek out a righteous young woman after my mission. Its not an "after this life" thing, it is very explicit in what my directions from the church are.

There is some quote from Oaks that I have saved somewhere that was made about 5 years ago about "if you find yourself falling in love with a daughter of God and have taken care of those feelings . . . ."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 02:11PM by cl2.

The idea that same-sex attraction is not a sin, that it cannot be corrected in some instances, and that acting on it is a sin is actually saying that God made some people gay and then will punish them if they act on their natural inclinations.

This would be similar to telling a heterosexual man that his attraction to women is OK, but if he ever acts on it, he will be condemned.

Does this not make their Evergreen Project a little hard to explain?

god made heterosexuals and if you don't act on it god will punish you, but you must do it his way, the way his profits says. Put it in the wrong hole and down you go.

And of course, Evergreen gets quietly killed earlier this year.

So, the Church's stance on homosexuality:

"Being gay is not a sin. Acting on it is. You can't help it. You can't pray away the gay. We don't condone you faking at being straight. You can be an active member and hold callings, as long as you commit yourself to a life of loneliness and chastity. Oh, yeah. And we won't excommunicate you for promoting marriage equality....as long as you don't commit apostasy. But gay marriage contradicts Church doctrine, so you ARE committing apostasy by doing so. If you don't watch your mouth, you CAN get excommunicated (see John Dehlin), or at the very least, lose your temple recommend. If you're confused, just stop thinking and remember this: WE LOVE YOU. YOU ARE WELCOME HERE."

Nice double-speak moves...simultaneously proclaiming to be tolerant and intolerant at the same time.