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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: July 15, 2014 03:16AM

How long I wonder before the Archbishop of Canterbury is female?

Progress in some parts of the Christian world, leaving the fringe crazies dragging their feet in the dirt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28300618

Briggy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2014 04:24AM by brigantia.

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Posted by: lilburne ( )
Date: July 15, 2014 05:52AM

In some respects this creates a problem for the Q15. If they do give women the priesthood in a few years then all they ate doing is what other churches have already done. It might imply either God is late inspiring the Q15 or that other churches are able to better read the dire to on of God.

There can't be much of a celebration for lds women to receive the same status that all of the other churches have already awarded. Hence I suspect the church will gain no good PR for being seen as the last one to act.

This means they're likely to do nothing ever. Which plays onto the view that the church will become increasing insular and conservative.

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Posted by: offradar ( )
Date: July 15, 2014 06:20AM

The fanatical and embittered gang of 15 in SL are running scared of any intrusion into their 2nd anointed temple oathed exclusive club of financial conmen.

These arrogant bullies will defend their secretive and non disclosured heterosexual male territory with every possible means they have at their disposal, money no object and fair or foul.

They will fight dirty, not the 15 lying cowards themselves of course, but systematically, through their army of lawyers, financial advisers, and the fawning minions at all levels, who obey any coded or covert instruction that comes from above.

And they call this festering abomination, Gods true church?

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 04:04AM

I see that Tom has picked this up too - interesting responses on his thread.

Briggy

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 05:57AM


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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:43AM

+2

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Posted by: lilburne ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 06:36AM

They will probably announce some female GAs eventually. But to keep the club closed the list will be made up of the daughters or granddaughters of the Q15.

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Posted by: Tom Phillips ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:40AM

They already have the equivalent of female GAs. They are the General Presidencies of the Relief Society, Young Women and Primary.

Also they have female temple workers administering 'sacred' ordinances (more sacred than blessing, preparing or passing the sacrament). Just imagine, they are set apart to, among other responsibilities, wash and anoint the naked bodies of 'worthy' females.

OK, a 'shield is worn, but there are slits up the side to allow access to actually touch the naked body, and view it. I haven't been to the temple for over 11 years so this may have changed following fears of sexual abuse suits.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 07:36AM

It's nice to see the progress, isn't it, Briggy? I have no doubt that a woman will one day be Archbishop of Canterbury.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 08:53AM

If the so called "mainstream" Christian churches are just now voting to allow women access to leadership positions, I don't think they have a lot of room to be pointing fingers at "the fringe crazies dragging their feet in the dirt". The mainstream has clearly been dragging their feet in the dirt, right along with the fringe, for way too long.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2014 08:58AM by MJ.

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 08:59AM

Well MJ - we've had female vicars for a good while now. Given the timeline et al, Anglicans/Methodists are streets ahead. Hopefully the RC church will allow married priests, as the Eastern Orthodox creed do.

Mormonism? I'm not expecting any change with them anytime soon.

Briggy

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:04AM

DO women have full access to power, yes or no?

I don't see the vast separation between what you call crazies and the woman that support institutions that are still denying them access to power, or why institutions that still have a long way in granting power to women are not considered crazy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2014 09:04AM by MJ.

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 12:59PM

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DO women have full access to power, yes or no?
>
> I don't see the vast separation between what you
> call crazies and the woman that support
> institutions that are still denying them access
> to power, or why institutions that still have a
> long way in granting power to women are not
> considered crazy.

It is a long battle MJ - I merely pointed out some encouraging progress. We all on this board know who is and isn't crazy, in our own circles or outside it, so I leave my opinion out there and own it. I don't need anyone's permission to have an opinion so that's where my power lies for what it's worth.

Briggy

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 07:24PM

Yeah, but competing in the race to insure they are not the absute last at comeing across the finish line is hardly leadership.

Finally adapting in order to stay relevant isn't really progress in my book.

The only progress I see is that we have one religion teaching a slightly less Misogynist view of women than they did before

Yeah, go and celebrate. At this rate you'll have equality by 3014

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: July 17, 2014 05:11AM

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, but competing in the race to insure they are
> not the absute last at comeing across the finish
> line is hardly leadership.
>
> Finally adapting in order to stay relevant isn't
> really progress in my book.
>
> The only progress I see is that we have one
> religion teaching a slightly less Misogynist view
> of women than they did before
>
> Yeah, go and celebrate. At this rate you'll have
> equality by 3014

MJ - we are equal. Get off your mysoginistic high horse. Maybe we live in different realities. I pointed out something newsworthy in this forum and you have an issue with that? Good news it is and about time. Yes I celebrate - with a hearty bottoms up.

Briggy

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:05AM

The retired Episcopal bishop of Utah was a woman and one of the candidates to replace her was gay. A local rabbi,a woman was alsoa lesbian.When I was a kid we lived next to a Methodist church and the pastor was female. That was over 40 years ago.It isn't that rare in other churches.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:07AM

And the total amount of Christianity that represents is?

The church's you list represent the fringe, not the mainstream.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:08AM

Really?Lots of protestant churches have women clergy and taken as a whole they are a pretty big part of Christianity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2014 09:20AM by bona dea.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 07:36PM

Lots of Christian churches are homophobic, Misogynistic, racists, etc, etc, etc. So, there, I can act just as bad as you.

And if you continue to used the idea of one chruch having a female bishop show mainstream Christianity as good, I can use Westbound Baptist chruch to show mainstream Christianity as bad. You are doing what you would chew me out for doing. Shame on you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2014 07:42PM by MJ.

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Posted by: Bamboozled ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:21AM

Hardly.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 07:32PM

REALITY, not Methodist apologetics.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 09:22AM

Neither are Episcopalians or Reform Jews etc.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 07:37PM

You really should learn how to reply to the correctly. Just who was that a reply to? It would help us try to make sense of what you said.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 07:55PM

You really should learn some manners. Just saying.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: July 16, 2014 08:02PM

And you call ME out on manners? Bwahahahahhahahhahahahahah\

Why not just answer the question?

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Posted by: janeeliot ( )
Date: July 17, 2014 03:47AM

MJ -- your slip is showing! You are the one hating women here. You have mocked them as "crazies" and sneered at them -- for I have no idea what! Not uniformly hating religions as you would have them do? As you do? How original of you -- a guy who gets angry when women insist on having their own responses, experiences, and opinions -- instead of yours. Too bad you never joined. (You never joined, right? We can take that to the bank?)

And your knowledge of the history of religion is somewhere between lacking and abysmal. You knowledge of women's studies on the other hand, is simply non-existent. The two are -- oddly enough -- not completely unrelated.

Quakers were the first feminist. Period. They encouraged women to speak in public, to write down their thoughts, and they published the first book of a woman's writing. This was -- oh -- over three hundred years ago. They also gave us Susan B. Anthony and Alice Paul. If you have no idea who they are -- which would not surprise me -- please google them. I feel that I am indulging you plenty already. As I write this, the Quakers have set up an underground railroad in Africa to get endangered gays to safety. But you know that, of course, and respect it.

African American women's power also began in their churches. In their churches they had a voice and found their voices. They organized -- starting small perhaps with church picnics and meetings, but from such small seeds... Soon their churches were the origins of the committees they formed to petition the powers that be for everything from health care to education for their children. One cannot over-emphasize the role of African American churches in laying the foundation for the Civil Rights movement, and that included women of color. If you had read anyone relevant -- Alice Walker, Zora Neale Hurston, Nikki Giovani, Maya Angelou -- you might have some small clue about the role of religion in the LIBERATION of black women. I clipped this from Wiki on Their Eyes Were Watching God (please note title): "Today, it has come to be regarded as a seminal work in both African-American literature and women's literature.[2] TIME included the novel in its 2005 list of the 100 best English-language novels published since 1923.[3]"
And for neither the first nor (huge sigh) the last time, I will explain that after she had formed NOW and become the first African American to get a J.S.D. at Yale, Pauli Murray followed her own dream to become an Episcopalian priest in 1973. Now was that before or after your flirtation with Mormonism? She is now considered a saint in that church -- not to suggest that the Episcopalians could possibly be more fashion-forward than you are.

Wherever on this planet do you think the (gross) stereotype of Tyler Perry's Church Woman came from? From the obvious fact that in their churches, women of color gained the outspoken power that has brought them so much gain -- as well as some grief.

Nor were African American women the only ones. As they took tentative steps out of woman's traditional role and the confinement of home, Anglo women often found the support of other women -- at church. These were the women they knew as friends, as community -- and churches -- really -- unknowingly or not -- acted as the first consciousness raising groups as women could talk about their experiences and concerns with other women in their churches. Churches were the logical starting places for the temperance and suffrage women groups that began to spring up in the 1900s.

In the history of abortion rights, mainline Protestant religions -- along with unorthodox Jews -- led the way. They offered abortion counseling, listened carefully, and came to understand why women seek abortions and were sympathetic. Please deal with it. Even the dour Lutherans submitted a very eloquent Friends of the Court brief during Roe. It is very good. You should read it. You might learn a thing or two about respecting women -- even those who dare to find their freedom in belief -- instead of kowtowing to you.

I daily come in contact with women inside religions who don't have the slightest trouble being powerful and expressing themselves -- Katie Breslin of Catholics for Choice now circulating petitions and organizing rallies to "take action right no[w] to ensure that women who work for for-profit businesses have access to contraception in their insurance plans." The women who daily join OW such as today's Patricia who posted "If the LDS ordination of women succeeds as it already has in so many other Christian denominations, I will celebrate, especially for all the little Mormon girls who will become truly equal in the eyes not only of God but their brothers and sisters in the Church. I believe women should be ordained."

None of this might fit your self-serving notion that women are uniformly oppressed by religions which are all misogynist and all women who participate in religions are "crazy," but those are the facts, ma'am, just the facts, the bare tip of the iceberg of facts that fly in the face of your theory.

Isn't it time to do a little less projecting and a little more owing?

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