They're somebody's deluded kids. Their church and their families and communities mistreat them, so everyone else is mean if they don't step up, put their own pursuits on hold and take care of somebody's else's adult kids first.

I'm not buying it.

Supplementing mishies a little here or there might be nice. Giving them clues about their delusions might be nice. BUT none of that is required. It's purely optional.

Students in college have their own concerns and budget problems. Their classes, tests, and part time jobs are important to their futures. They need to stay focused. It isn't their fault mishies are sneaking on campus and confronting them.

People on the streets have busy lives taking care of their job concerns, their families, their health, and their personal goals. If they have an interest in halting their pursuits, they are making a choice. They are no more noble than those who hurry by missionaries to get to their medical oncologist appointments or to their eye surgeon's office than those who love missionaries and accept responsibility for them no matter what.

What about people in their homes? They also have lives and limited resources. If missionaries show up at their doors, they have a choice of continuing to do their physical therapy exercise program or postponing it for the sake of somebody else's adult children banging on the door. It's up to them and it isn't mean if a private stranger in their home continues with their phone call or their bath and ignores somebody else's gangly teens on their doorstep.

In my opinion it's disrespectful of a church to send missionaries to school campuses. It's certainly intrusive to send them to homes if the residents have said to stop coming there or if signs are posted against trespassing or solicitation. It's an admission of stupidity for Mormons to claim they can't keep their records in order and don't know which homes and campuses have banned religious proselytizing.

In truth the Mormon church wants these kids to trespass where they're unwanted and stay away from exmos who are excited to talk to them. So the church doesn't keep or honor "no entry" or "no contact" directives when they could if they chose.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to talk to or entertain missionaries. I do think it's inconsistent if anyone gives them preferential treatment over JW or other proselytizers however.

I also think it's a fair choice to ignore or send away any stranger who confronts you when you're trying to live your busy life. Your daily priorities are every bit as important as the goals of religious strangers who happen to pop up when you least expect them.

Every person is someone's child, mother, brother, sister or grandma. It isn't just missionaries who are someone's children. Our loved ones care what happens to us as much as mashie parents care. Anyone who has no loved ones to worry about them deserve special consideration. If they are not someone's child they might feel lonely and abandoned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2014 09:10AM by Cheryl.

Yep. Last year, the elders came to our house and put their foot in the door. I told them to get lost; we weren't interested.

One of the elders then goes on a diatribe about how we should listen because he is volunteering his time, and he's a good guy, and he gave up two years of his life for this special message, and people haven't been welcoming to him or his message, and on and on.

I told him that I did the same thing, and I'm now certain it was a complete waste of time.

The line of reasoning about how we should let them waste our time because they think they are doing something important makes no sense. It's egocentric. We're all doing something important.

What I do is very important to me and my loved ones. It needs to take priority over strangers who happen to show up uninvited.

It amazes me that many assume sticking with my routine is being mean or rude if locals or missionaries come to my home. This is especially wrong after telling them for several decades that they need to stay away and even going to the police and hosing them to emphasize the point.

+10!

I've met a few who actually said they were.

During my "not believing but still being social" days, I certainly didn't care for attending events where mishies attended because they expected everyone around them to oblige them, if not actively assume their lifestyles and rules while in their glorious presence.

I know of a set of missionaries that weren't even deterred by someone's fence. They climbed over it so they could go knock on their door. Not only is that rude, it's stupid. What if a guard dog is on patrol, what if the owner thought it was an intruder and shot them? We all know that if something like that happened the mormons would spin it about how dedicated the mishies were and how they were injured or sacrificed their lives to spread the gospel.

I totally agree that people like that knocking at my door are a big intrusion. I really hate it when I'm in the middle of watching an intense show or movie and the doorbell rings. Ignore it and they start pounding on the door. So rude. I generally let them stew, see if I can see who it is without opening the door, and if it's them, I don't answer.

I'm personally nice to them because I was there once upon a time and still have flash backs of terribly rude people...

Here's the thing... EVERY missionary is going through HELL right now... furthermore they all have doubts. Some practice delusioning themselves because they aren't ready to confront reality. The ones who don't do this are going through double Hell.

I don't think there is much any of us can do to help them. No one needs to cater to them. They are on their personal journeys right now. When I see them in public I ignore them. Whatever you tell them is nothing compared to all the proof they get on a daily basis that they are wasting their time. If they are willing to ignore their personal experience or sugar coat it, they are willing to ignore you. When I see the one's in my family's ward I have a friendly chat with them since they come over for dinner.

I don't try to deconvert or deprogram them. I just treat them like human beings, like I would anyone else who was a friend of the family. Because that is what I valued as a missionary. I loved being treated like a normal guy. I liked when someone ignored my badge.

Now some missionaries are straight up annoying and full of shit. Give them a dose of reality! But they aren't all like that, some, like me, are desperate for something normal and non church related.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2014 01:47PM by nonsequiter.

It's not so much about *my* recovery... I just try not to forget what it was like as a missionary.

It's honestly a very dangerous time for a lot of people. Depressed missionaries are common. They have to hide this depression in order to be viewed as "righteous".

I feel like this creates emotional instability. And can lead to some seriously self destructive behavior.

It's just kind of a fine line sometimes I guess. Because some missionaries are just pricks out to make themselves look good, while others are victims too.

Probably the best thing is to simply ignore them and let them be... which can be hard when they dont take any sort of hint from you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2014 03:28PM by nonsequiter.

Being nice when it doesn't fit an individual or their family's needs or recovery doesn't make sense to me when the only advantage is that it feels good to relive in a past life experience and not grow or learn from it.

And no, I've never heard of missionaries taking a hint when they're at someone's house. They might leave if they're ignored, but they don't remove anyone on their lists unless they know they must for some pressing reason.

Having served a mission and been on the receiving end of verbal and physical abuse because of it, I agree with nonsequiter. Being kind is not about recovery so much as about being a decent human being. That does not mean you have to make time for missionaries or other salespeople when they show up uninvited or try to stop you on the street or treat them in any other preferential way. But these methods of proselyting are not going to change until the new generation of Mormons changes. If we are mean to them we only reinforce their brainwashing by acting just how an exmormon is supposed to act according to TSCC.

nonsequiter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm personally nice to them because I was there once upon a time and still have flash backs of terribly rude people...

The thing is, who knocks on people's doors anymore? Even the Girl Scouts sell their cookies in front of our local supermarkets. They sell more cookies in half the time that it used to take going door to door.

Door-to-door sales is a relic of the past. My grandmother got ice for her icebox off of a traveling cart, and knives from a peddler. My mom got delivery of dairy products and dry cleaning. I get, what, a daily newspaper? Nowadays, no one wants to be disturbed by some peddler knocking on their door. Who wants some stranger peddling religion knocking on your door when you are trying to rest, tend to children, or get some work done?

The Mormon church is now issuing iPads to missionaries but continues to use an outdated method of selling the church. Perhaps in third world countries this is still the way to go, but the first world moved past that a long time ago. No wonder people are cranky about it!

In rural communities they were glad for strangers passing through with interesting stories and merchandise. Neighbors were few and far between and it was easy to be isolated and lonely without our modern transportation and communication devices.

Now, more and more people work at home. I know many writers who are dependent on their home offices and private writing time for their living. Interrupting them costs them money.

There are also many people who recuperate at home after surgeries and accidents. Health plans allow for diminishing time in the hospital and expect patients to do much of the nursing alone at home. It can be difficult to hobble to the door and it's unfortunate if it's a salesman when the patient is expecting a pain prescription or a friend to help with lunch. Or if they're sleeping off medication, it's difficult to get up and check the door. I've had eye surgeries that required hours a day of being immobile on my back for the transplants to be accepted. It was jarring if someone banged on the door and I couldn't not do anything about it.

Never have I heard of a salesperson or missionary saying, "Sorry I bothered you." They always act miffed and slightly insulted that residents don't drop everything and invite them to give their pitch.

They're like telephone solicitors but not like the nice ones who offer to take you off their lists and thank you for your time.

It's like the person above who claims it's "mean" to turn down missionaries without first kissing up to them enough that they don't feel put upon.

Why? Because mishies might be pressured to embrace their faith more closely if someone doesn't treat them with kid gloves.

That's another example of claiming that people in their homes don't have a right to act in their own best interests. They must care more about what missionaries think than about what they were doing before the strangers showed up unannounced which is considered rude and inconsiderate these days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2014 04:04PM by Cheryl.

I served a mission. There was some pressure - hell, I'll admit it - there was a lot of pressure to go. Ultimately no one held a gun to my head and forced me, though. I made that choice, and if there were hardships associated with it, I have only myself to thank for them.

My wife, as a student-athlete, had a harder time in college than I had on my mission. Her mom and dad wouldn't provide spending money and the NCAA has gotten very picky about what jobs for which student-athletes may be compensated. It more or less has to amount to hard labor.

So I'd have to agree. I feel sorry for some of those kids - most of them, in fact - but it's their choice to go on missions, and not the responsibility of the rest of us to devote our time or resources to making them more comfortable or to making them feel that their time has been well-spent.

To the parents who send their kids off to 3rd world locations (I understand that the church makes the call on that, but those who finance the missions have the right to make the final OK) I think they're bat-shit crazy. I know dysentery can happen anywhere, but that and similar maladies are far more likely in some locations than others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2014 07:29AM by scmd.

Private citizens in their homes have no part in the blame. They're simply minding their business and trying to live their lives.

Blame goes to the Mormon church and its members and to anyone who puts pressure on kids to go on missions and to the kids who bend to that pressure.

Short of a homeless person squatting in front of the grocery store, there is no one more pitiful than a Mormon missionary to me.

I am perfectly willing to be inconvenienced to have the opportunity to plant a seed of truth. It may be the first time they have ever met or talked to a person who has left Mormonism and is leading a happy, productive life, and is WAY happier than they were as a Mormon.

All you have to say is that you used to be a member, have been to the temple and know more about Mormonism than they do because you are not prevented from getting the full truth from the internet.

Then go on and tell them the happiest day of your life was the day you resigned and you have been so grateful for the privilege of directing and leading your own life. You thank god (or no one) for the privilege of doing your own thinking and not waiting for the thinking to be done by 15 old guys who never met you.

Having control over your own life, making decisions based on your own morals and values is a key component of happiness. Scientists have found it to be the number one component.

And then point out that they don't have it. Tell them that if the war in heaven was so people would have choice, that choice was so important, why are all the choices taken away from missionaries of that god's plan?

And how can punishing people with excommunication be the right thing for the church of the god who loves choice?



Kathleen Waters