Ok, long story short, I am an "active" member (have to be for the wife, kids, in-laws, etc.) but I haven't believed in a very long time. I attend...pretend...play my role...but do as little as I can for TSCC. I pay minimal tithing (just enough to keep up appearances...I pay directly and my wife doesn't check in on the bank accounts much). I've even done things to try and expose the fraud (I regularly leave a copy of "Letter to a CES Director" in the lobbies of church). In short, I am a complete non-believer.

So I get a call today to meet with the SP. He' a pious guy but at least bearable. And guess what...he called me to become the new 2nd counselor in the bishopric!!!! He also said (something along the lines of) "The spirit confirmed to me in a big way that you are the right man for this position. You are faithful, have an incredibly strong testimony, yadda, yadda, yadda." Honestly, it was everything I could do to not laugh.

So, I guess I will be in the bishopric now!!! In a way I'm excited because now I can tell people to just chill and not worry so much. Maybe I will do some good, even though I know this "calling" is complete and total bullshit.

A marvelous work and a wonder, my unfaithful brethren!!!!!

That's funny! Does this mean more work for you?

Might be a clue how many people are leaving or not paying any tithing if you are the best candidate.

Would you assign speakers and topics?

I would make speaking assignments based on the CES letter and encourage the member to really research the subject online.

Oh believe me, I will do as little as possible. I'm debating whether or not I should be so lazy that the new bishop eventually replaces me. I won't bust my ass in this new position, believe me, but I also am a little excited about my new sphere of influence, especially with the youth. I could potentially do some good...but not the good they are looking for. =)

What you should have said:
"If I'm the best you can, you are in big trouble!"

Congratulations and condolences.

Can you cut them a break without anyone knowing?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 12:55AM by Beth.

As a fellow apostate second counselor, I can confirm that yes, you can. All I ever do is encourage them to befriend any new or shy kids in the group, ask how school is going, and encourage them to follow the Strength of Youth booklet, then send them on their way in five minutes or less.

I get weird looks like they were expecting me to grill them, but not a single one of them would every complain.

I do too, which is why interviewing the youth is one of the small consolations I take in being stuck in this role for the time being. I don't think it appropriate to plant seeds of doubt, but I won't be party to any digging and prodding.

uhhh.....do you not suppose that at some point soon, you will have a strong desire, yerning, longing, to live an authentic life?

Sure, you are in an odd situation; I can see both sides. Nevertheless, I think you will be strained and miserable deep inside, if you don't figure out how to tell your wife, your TBM friends, your "leaders"...and end the masquerade so you can live authentically!

Pay as little "tithing" as you can get away with. Help prevent despair, and even suicides. Best of luck to you.

Dontcha know that the SP has the power of discernment and he knows that you are a nonbeliever but the spirit told him to call you to the bishopric and that your faith and testimony will be restored in the exercising of the calling? And a few years from now there will be a story in the Ensign about your miraculous reconversion?

Here's to hoping you give us frequent updates on the inside dope that goes on in your new calling!!

@mythb4meat:

I hear what you are saying and BELIEVE ME when I say that there is NOTHING I would want more than to bail on the fraud that is TSCC. To make a very long story short I simply cannot. I stand to lose (and I am certain I would lose) far too much. I've hinted at it with the wife but she (and my in-laws) cannot and will not entertain anything that isn't full Kool-Aid-drinking Mormon approved. I've already told myself that once my in-laws are gone from the earth I can come out, but not until then. I'm an atheist through and through, so I don't really have a problem living this way, since nobody is out there to judge me. I am making a judgment call that is based on my life experience, and I believe it is the right decision...for now.

Are there conference calls with the stake leadership and SLC?

Record them. Closed door meeting with the bishop discussing members?Record the conversations.

Find out as much information as possible regarding activity and tithing rates.

Anything in writing regarding finances, copy or take good, legible pictures with a smart phone.

Just start making copies and records of everything. Someday it may be very important. This forum needs people with access to this information.

^^^^^^^^^^^
This. PLEASE.

So far I haven't been on any conf calls with SLC.

Recording anything at the Stake and Bishopric level can do no more than get a bish or SP in trouble, it won't give the entire church a black eye because it's a local matter. Too easy to throw them under the bus.

Counselors don't get access to financials, they are locked out of the system for that. They can only enter this week's tithing.

We do get reports on the local unit attendance figures. My ward is Under 40% and falling (warmed my heart to see that).

Squeebee's right. Unfortunately there's not much to expose at the local level other than ward level practices. All the juicy stuff happens at the corporate level in SLC. We need more people working at the Church Office Building to leak the good stuff.

I had the exact same thing happen to me. After a year of 2nd counselor I was called as 1st counselor for two more years. Then I had had enough. The guilt associated with conducting temple interviews, the giving of bullshit priesthood blessings, and conducting excommunication hearings eventually became too much to endure. Finally I came out to my wife and 4 kids that the church was bogus. I left and within two months my wife had been so judged and mistreated by members that she and the kids quit going too. Now all six of us have officially resigned. Life is a bit rough with my TBM parents and sibs, but we only see them once a year.

As others have shared, authentic living is worth striving for, but I can appreciate that it may require incremental steps over the course of years. Good luck to you.

I'm in that boat now, called at a nonbeliever to be a 2nd counselor, told by the Bishop and SP that it was an inspired call because of my faithfulness.

In my case the twist is at the time of the calling I hadn't paid tithing in the last four months!

I came out to my wife two months after, now that I'm pretty sure she'd stay with me I really should push her to let me come out and quit the calling (I've been waiting in the hope that she'll join me, it's only been about three months in the calling).

Finding out that she may get so put down on to quit herself is almost encouraging in a way.

Do you hold sway?

Large-In-Stature Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, long story short, I am an "active" member
> (have to be for the wife, kids, in-laws, etc.) but
> I haven't believed in a very long time. I
> attend...pretend...play my role...but do as little
> as I can for TSCC.

I've even done things to try and expose
> the fraud (I regularly leave a copy of "Letter to
> a CES Director" in the lobbies of church). In
> short, I am a complete non-believer.

> So, I guess I will be in the bishopric now!!! In
> a way I'm excited because now I can tell people to
> just chill and not worry so much. Maybe I will do
> some good, even though I know this "calling" is
> complete and total bullshit.



I am confident the LDS Church appreciates your wife and children in exchange for anonymously placing the CES letter in Mormon church lobbies. They are getting the better deal.

Many stories are told here about how the private things discussed between bishop and member become common knowledge among members.

How about saying something to DW like, "I met with so and so. I'm troubled by .*******. On one hand, blah, blah, blah, but on the other hand yada, yada, yada. What do you think?"

Might lead to some discussions with her that are in keeping with your calling and cause her to think a little.

BTW be careful Large In Stature, you just disclosed something that narrows your identity down to a relatively small pool of people who were called as 2nd Counselor today. I didn't post about it on here when it happened in the unspecified past because I didn't want to make it too easy for the Strengthening Church Members Committee to do the math.

You want to work for free for a lousy corporation who markets a shetty product?

Good luck with that

Is it bad to hope that this calling makes your family so miserable that you all leave together?

Telling members to chill and not worry so much will just "lull them into carnal security". People who get comfortable in the church will rarely be motivated to study their way out. How is this helping them?

"Don't worry, be happy" is one of the mantras the brethren are using to keep people in.

True, but he can also help members to become more open minded which could put them on the course to thinking independently which is trouble for the church. He could teach them principles which would HELP them leave instead of staying. I think he could do far more towards the freeing of members than ingrain them further by doing anti-brainwashing of the people.

And when he leaves, that's another big win, because the kids who like him will wish he hadn't and wonder why.

You have my deepest sympathy at the time you are going to waste, time of your life that you can't get back.

Just wait until they call you to be bishop :(. How far can you really go?

Or if a member comes to you asking for help because they found a copy of the CES letter laying around. That's what helped get me out... I could no longer justify the history to myself let alone others.

You have to do what you have to do.

I like your idea of being an agent for good in the evil empire. If there weren't people like you, we wouldn't have the Jews who were saved by Schindler, would we?

The whole idea of leading your own life is to make your own choices, which may include staying in the church for whatever reasons.

You have us to talk with - there are plenty of people just like you here so you don't have to apologize. of course you will move towards a more authentic life and I'm sure you will be unable to see your children getting only half the story.

I've seen people keep their children from being indoctrinated just by teaching them critical thinking and being a good example of someone who questions everything.

Best of luck and keep us posted how it goes. Maybe you'll get some written instructions from the castle you can share with us...or MAYBE you'll climb the ladder and be that mole we always wanted who can plug us into some financial transparency!


Kathleen Waters



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 04:12AM by anagrammy.

Dear Large-in-Stature,
Dear Squeebee,

I am sure you will read the advice of others here with great interest. Take their advice into consideration, but make your own decisions. Stay in the church? Leave? Spread leaflets or not? Record conversations or not? Keep us informed or not? Follow the rules, bend the rules, or break the rules? Start with one thing and evolve over time? The decision is yours, the timing is yours. This is about your life, your wife, your family and your happiness. Whatever works for you, works for you. There will always be vitriolic comments from busybodies. Mostly TBMs, sometimes exmos. But is all up to you and nobody else's business.

That said, I do hope you'll keep us informed from time to time!