Before I started my undergrad (you-know-where), everyone was telling me I'd gain a greater testimony and the "Church will be even more true than before." Right...so I went there and my first two years there were an ok experience. You know, all the good RM's , the religion classes were fun, no drinking parties at the apt complex...My junior year I realized one thing...MAN I AM SO UNHAPPY and I don't know why. The only thing I heard was "pray more, turn to the Lord, blablabla..." I started hating the entire you-know-what school and all the RM's, who were good RM's only when they bore their mostly fake and made up testimonies, religion classes got scary and I realized I would have to be beyond perfect to made it to the celestial kingdom and playing UNO is fun, but I was really sad, when my non-member friends went to LV to drink and have fun. My boyfriend was telling me that they didn't know the true happiness and fun....oh, they darn knew it! They had more fun then me. Anyway, there are couple of things I've always questioned...

1) Why every little thing is answered something like "Only God knows, we have to trust Him, follow your Lord."

2)Why every sacrament meeting seems like a guilt trip? Why do I always feel like I am NOT a good person?

3) Why is there no diversity in the Church?

4) Why do I feel like every fun thing is banned in the Church?

5) And most importantly....why all the anti-mormon websites makes much more sense than TBoM?

Ha...

But there are two things.... I go to a church school and leaving the Church now would mean I wouldn't not be able to graduate. And to be honest....it is a good school. Second, my boyfriend is Mormon and I love him beyond anything. And that sucks...There is the battle. I want to be happy, but I also love him. I want to graduate, but don't want to be dishonest and "love" the Church.

But I can definitely say..."My name is Sadie and I am ExMormon." The Church doesn't make me happy and I think Joseph Smith was pretty wrong when he claimed this Church to be the only true one.

First, lock in your associate's degree so that your generals are complete.

Next, (I'm assuming you're at the Y) transfer to the U of U (this will free your mind). Your associate's will transfer.

Lastly, gently begin to share the REAL you with your boyfriend. If he accepts you, great; but don't think that love will win out over time with a mismatched relationship. If you doubt this, check out some of the married to TBMs on the board.

Best wishes!

If I remember correctly, BYU doesn't offer associate degrees anymore. I know they did in the 70s, but they didn't during my time there (Class of 2006).

Otherwise, good advice. Transfer if you can. Share the truth with the boyfriend but be prepared for him to shut you out about it.

Good luck!

Arghhhh...it figures the Y would want to do away with associate's to keep students from transfering out! In any event, if we're talking about BYU, consider this: a four-year degree typically takes a minimum of 8 semesters. Times each semester by 2 or 3 credits--that's the amount of religion credits (16-24) you'll take during your degree. BYU students, by default, have a minor in the Mormon religion.

If the U scares you, try Utah State. You can always use the excuse that you need to move out of Provo for a better paying job.

You need 16 credits of religion at BYU. Because they want you to take one course a semester. Each class is 2 credits.

An associate degree has nothing whatsoever to do with transferring credits to another school. The admissions office, and maybe the major you are transferring in to, evaluate your transcript, and decide which courses transfer, and what requirements they fulfill at the destination university.

I second the idea of toughing it out if you have a year or less to go. Transferring would set you back a semester or more, and you will have probably already finished all the required religion classes.

Ignore the advice about getting a copy of your transcript. If you transfer, have BYU send a transcript. They have to do this, or give you a written explanation of why they did not, and what you have to do to get your transcript released. This is required under FERPA. Claims that they will withhold a transcript out of spite are nonsense. Universities fear FERPA lawsuits every bit as much as hospitals fear HIPAA suits. They are very careful to dot i's and cross t's.

All universities have heard of Photoshop, and about the biggest red flag imaginable is if you send them a transcript yourself, rather than having the university send it. That will guarantee that your application will be treated with suspicion, and be carefully vetted, or get tossed because they have plenty of other applications that do not require extra vetting.

still, never use the university computer system to comment here, have your credits (them that will transfer) transfered to the next university or college, and get the hell out while you can. if you are found out, everythign you have done for two years will be lost.

I think that the pursuit of happiness is a noble undertaking. The Mormon church certainly has its own take on it, but as you have discovered, you can be Mormon and unhappy, or not-Mormon and quite content. It's a big world and there are a lot of different ways to live a satisfying life.

In your shoes, feeling the way that you do, I would give the world a chance. Sure, you may need to bide your time to do just that. Don't feel that you need to let your boyfriend go at this point in time, but OTOH don't marry him, either.

Yeah, but the business school here is better than the one at the U. I wish he was more open to discuss things. He is blind to everything. The Church is perfect for him.

Sorry to disappoint you, but a school's reputation is based on its GRADUATE schools. The Eccles Business school at the U is very highly rated and you won't be dealing with baggage of a BYU degree.

I'd recommend looking outside of Utah for graduate schools. Better options and you'll have the chance to explore the world a little more. It can sound scary but it's worth it to get out away from what you know and see what is out there.

It's better not to have Brigham Young's name on your resume...it is a huge embarrassment to me in light of his racist and sexist statements. Transfer when possible and live your life to the fullest.

Be honest with your boyfriend when you are ready...but it will likely change your relationship.

Best luck!

I'm assuming that you're a rising senior, since you mentioned your struggles started in your junior year. That means it's probably way to late to transfer for this Fall, and you'll be doing your senior year at your-nameless-school. I suspect that if you transfer, most of your academic credits would transfer ok, but not any religion credits. So, either you buckle in and hide your doubts and graduate, or you wait a semester or year to transfer to another institution.

Personally, I'd recommend transferring, because outside of the Moridor BYU doesn't have the "prestige" it holds for Mormons, and in many cases it's a real negative: when I worked in industry, and was in a position to evaluate candidates or make hiring decisions, I always rejected BYU grads--no one wants to work with a religious nut, so why take the chance? (same for Liberty, Bob Jones, etc). But if you want to stay on track and graduate next Spring, be sure you don't lose your ecclesiastic endorsement. Several people recently have had trouble with this--you can finish your degree requirements, but without the endorsement BYU apparently will not confer your degree.

As far as the boyfriend goes, you'd better be honest with him and see if things remain lovey dovey. More importantly, if you're struggling now, imagine a lifetime of playing Molly Mormon when you really don't believe... it'll be misery.

Yeah, if you're already a junior you may as well stick it out and get that undergraduate degree. If you plan on pursuing an MBA or other business related grad degree (you mentioned the business school) look elsewhere. There are much better options out there.

I hate this reasoning: "I automatically reject BYU grads, as someone who posts on RfM, therefore the rest of the world sees it as a negative".

Honestly, it really is pretty no-name elsewhere. Exmos and mos give it way more credit for recognition. I got interviews with every big name company in my industry that I applied to, and even some that I didn't apply to, with only a few exceptions. BYU is a personal embarrassment, not a professional one.

I agree, it hasn't been that much of a detriment. More of a personal embarrassment than anything else. I remember getting hired to work for political campaign several years ago. The candidate was a Democrat running for Congress. My co-workers, when they first met me, all expressed surprise that I had attended BYU yet was registered with the Democratic party and working with them. They didn't think it was possible to be a BYU grad and a Democrat. In their minds all Mormons/BYU grads were rabid right wingers. Point is, I still got the job, just had to face questions about how I reconciled Mormonism with political affiliation. BYU isn't a deal breaker for most employers, but you may face questions.

notnewatthisanymore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BYU is a personal embarrassment, not
> a professional one.


Exactly right. I'd rather not have it on my resume (I do), but job interviewers don't givvuhdamm. Fortunately I did grad school elsewhere.

nomonomo Wrote:
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> As far as the boyfriend goes, you'd better be
> honest with him and see if things remain lovey
> dovey. More importantly, if you're struggling now,
> imagine a lifetime of playing Molly Mormon when
> you really don't believe... it'll be misery.

Yes, try to imagine it. But believe that it's worse than you imagine. A broken heart at 21 years old vs a spouse and a gaggle of kids who believe that *you* are brainwashed and under the grasp of Satan. That's what many of us here have dealt with or are currently dealing with. Go over to the NOM board and read about all the folks trying to make it work with their TBM spouse.

My advice to my gay BYU friends has been to leave if you have more than a year left, but to suck it up for a year if you can. Once you have your degree in hand, they cannot take it away unless they can prove academic fraud.

I would get an official copy of your transcript today, just in case. They have been known to hold transcripts out of spite. That way you won't lose all your credits.

Just lay low, keep the rules, and restrict your internet searching to channels that they cannot monitor you.

As for your boyfriend, that is a lot tougher. If you get serious enough to wish to marry, then you will have to be honest with him about your feelings. If he wants a TBM Temple Wedding, then you need to let him go. If he is okay with you not believing, then ask yourself if he will feel the same way about your kids. People change their minds about things like that when they are parents.

Tell no one about your unbelief until that diploma is physically in hand, including your BF.

Get that education even if it means faking it to make it.

Do not get engaged, do not get married and no matter what do not have a child (in that order) with the BF if you are not into all things Mormon. (even then don’t do it)

Remember the saying “If you love it let it go”? Well there is your justification to cut him loose if he will not be getting on board with exiting Mormonism in the near future.

One more thing Sadie.

Don’t you dare depend on a man for any kind of financial support. Be 100% independent and maintain 100% capability to remain so. If you don’t do this you will never be a free woman. Men love independent smart women.

The thought of cutting your BF loose is prolly a hard thought to entertain at this point. Believe me when I tell you that there are lots of good looking non-mormon eligible bachelors out there that have high morals, thoughtful demeanors and whose single most important thing in life is to be your best friend and lover.

If you decide to cut the BF loose you may be sad and heartbroken for a bit however it won’t last. You’ll get to start dating again. The dating field is ripe and ready for harvest whenever you’re ready. (I recommend you wait till you're 30 but Nature generally has other plans)

Kudos on waking from the dream! I wish I was in your shoes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 09:57AM by AmIDarkNow?.

I was in your shoes, follow your instincts, Mormonism is a load of BS. Suck it up then GTFO ASAP, you have spent a lot of time that may be wasted. Dump TBM boyfriend before he rats you out, then only date men who aren't mormon, sounds harsh but seriously. BYU makes you feel old at 22, you are still young with your life ahead of you. Welcome to reality.

BYU is not the big plus that Mormons seem to think it is outside Mo-land. I don't think it's a gigantic negative either, but I do think you aren't getting a good education if you aren't being taught to think critically. And all those bogus religion credits have a huge opportunity cost.

If I were starting my senior year, I'd probably keep my head down and my mouth shut and get the hell out as soon as I had my diploma in hand. If I had more than that, I'd transfer.

As for your boyfriend, while it might seem to you like you are "old" and ready for the marriage market, to the rest of the country you are just getting started. There is no hurry at all to settle down. If you tie yourself to somebody who is TBM, you are going to be in for a world of misery. Do you really want to raise kids, especially daughters, in a religion that has such rigid sex roles and is so stifling?

Don't get serious with him. It will just make you both unhappy. You've got your whole life ahead of you. You have a career to establish, traveling to do and friends to make.