Family get-together. Lots of competitiveness and quick triggers. All successful, professional, talented people who work and volunteer in charitable situations. Females all some degree of 'believer' (non-LDS) who embrace the ideals of doing unto others and forgiving others' weaknesses and errors.

But.

Not when it comes to each other. I'm always the one who has overlooked, sought to understand, given another chance, forgotten, forgiven, closed the gap, not just for myself but for the entire group, with me and for each other.

I'm tired of it now. I've gone way past forgiving 70 x 7. More like 70 x 1000 by now.

I admit it's tough for me to forgive. Especially if I believe that someone has crossed the (invisible, I guess) ultimate line. I will overlook up to that point but then one day, zap. Ultimate line crossed - really really hard to forgive. I even feel resentment at the call to overlook/forgive one more time. (True enough, the call is within myself, not from outside pressure).

I especially have a hard time apologizing if I don't believe I am the transgressor or even half in the wrong.

There are several instances where I have willingly failed to forgive as to me the wrong against me is so enormous.

Of course, being a life-long Christian (before and after my 3-year stint as a Mormon) I feel guilty at being so stubborn about whether to forgive or not.

It's only a few people I have found hard to forgive as I have perceived their wrong against me to be so great (affecting my employment or relationship with others, for instance). One example is an active Christian woman who apparently felt jealous of me and scared I would take her job so she lied about my productivity and interactions with peers and I lost that cherished job with no chance for appeal. Many years later she apologized to me, admitted her jealousy ("because you had such a good relationship with all the [employers] and I thought you wanted my job") and said "I lied. Will you forgive me?" I gave her a condition (to tell the employers) but of course she wouldn't. I realize you're not supposed to attach conditions to your forgiveness but in that instance I felt it was such a grievous wrong and I wanted her not only to apologize but to fix it (as in just let the employers know - I wasn't expecting to go back and get the job again).

One other work instance involved a supervisor who messed up data I had painstakingly entered into a new computer program over a period of a year. There was no easy way to fix it (understatement) and it affected a medical program we were operating, perhaps then failing to save lives. We argued and I walked out, never to return, and never to forgive her incompetence and superior attitude in the face of utter ignorance. I never knew her religious persuasion.

The third instance where I have trouble forgiving involves a group of women at church who ignored instructions involving a charitable outreach I was in charge of, severely negatively impacting a refugee family as well as the program I was running. I tried to think they were 'only trying to help' but they were aggressive and didn't listen or accept the necessary restrictions I had set into place, upon expert outside guidance and recommendations. They caused me a lot of grief and turmoil and ended up being the reason I left a church that I greatly enjoyed being part of (post-Mormon). To date, I have not been a regular churchgoer ever since.

I admit I hold a grudge in these instances, if you want to look at it like that. I relate them only to give examples of the kinds of clashes where I have trouble freely forgiving others, never mind forgetting the circumstances.

In the case of family clashes, I don't see it as exercising forgiveness so much as just accepting people for what and who they are and focusing on enjoying being together. But being together always, always, in every case, causes clashes. I am the avowed peacemaker, both self-appointed but also expected by others. But it's an impossible role where everybody ends up clashing with the so-called peacemaker. That would be me. And not only do I feel bad and end up with an aching heart and feel disappointed in myself and grieve for how I think and hope things should be but aren't but I find it hard to forget and move on (my version of forgiveness in the case of family).

It's very difficult to apologize, I find (never mind to formally forgive). I could do a grudging one this time, after yet another family get-together where I clashed with three out of ten people, but I genuinely, after much thought, and good insight I feel, don't think I am the guilty party in any way.

I feel that the 70 x 7 is up. I know the interpretation of that instruction is that it's not meant to be the penultimate number, that it really means we should forgive an unlimited amount of times.

But what do you do if (1) you don't think you did/said anything wrong; (2) you believe/know that others did/said offensive things; (3) you feel that you've reached the end of the road regarding forgiveness and apologies?

Even if you want to say you'll meet people halfway and everybody says sorry, how do you make it a gracious concession?

Maybe time heals things like this, making a belated apology easier to manage but I find that some things get on your last nerve at just the wrong time and also some things feel like you just need to give up.

Mostly the clashes involve personalities and egos, I'd say, not events or actions. The biggest reason for them with the family is the genetically driven hair trigger that everyone seems to have (with me beng by far the 'meek' one).

But suddenly I got fed up. Now after a serious clash, I feel like I 'should' apologize or otherwise have a conversation to repair relationships that feel so broken but too I feel that I did nothing wrong.

I often say that compared to death how serious is this situation and it helps me to keep things in perspective. I also always keep in mind that our time together is short (in reality, as we are scattered and are rarely together - this was the first occasion in a decade, but also in terms of mortality - life is indeed short and flashes by in an instant) but sometimes that is not enough of a prompt for me to overlook absolutely everything and carry on pulling the crowd along to the peace table, so very often.

I'm tired. I did no wrong. I have a hard time forgiving the overstepping of that invisible line that even I am sometimes not aware of until it's been breached. How do I offer a gracious apology (especially to one relative who I would like to maintain a decent relationship with, as well as with her daughter) when I feel the fault in what occurred between us was almost entirely hers?

How do you walk away from some or all family members and still feel happy in life? I think I would feel guilt and sorrow, which keeps me from severing ties.

Why can't somebody else be the peacemaker for once? Or take the initiative to apologize? Why can't we get together (the group or any individual) without me getting hurt or feeling upset or even angry about something?

Maybe life is easier if you don't know anybody?

I can relate to your post, Nightingale. I have three sisters and until very recently, they mostly treated me like a child. I have one sister who still does. I can barely stand to be around her. She has a special gift for being controlling, manipulative, and insulting. It's like she has no empathy for other people, especially me.

What I ultimately did was swear off immediate family get togethers. I was very honest about why and made it clear that it wasn't that I didn't love my family, I just have to protect my mental health. I was in therapy and on meds for years and being around all my sisters (and until he died recently, my dad) at the same time is a special form of hell for me. It takes me days to recover. So I just beg off. Fortunately, my mom seems to understand.

Thanks for your compassionate reply. I can mostly understand when someone keeps family at bay but have never been able to do it myself. I think I'm at that point now, at least with some members. It's for my own mental health too - or at least my peace of mind, which is important to me.

I was sorry to read about your dad, btw, and your tough year. I hope things will settle down now and the coming years will go well for you.

Thanks. I think things are going to be fine. I don't feel sad about my dad right now. I wouldn't have wanted him to be on life support for a long time. It's sad that he's gone, but it was his time to go. And I truly hope he's at peace now.

I do see my family one on one and in partial groups or sometimes at Thanksgiving when my whole family is nearby. It's just that I can't be around all three of my sisters anymore without some other diversion. Everybody has a strong personality and opinions and it usually devolves into something nasty within hours. I've spent too many years crying.

One of my other sisters flat out told me that she understood and respected my choice. She is the only one of us who is single and I get the feeling if she were married, she'd do the same thing.

When there are that many clashes, it's usually because you are, or are dealing with strong-willed individuals (or as the old expression would have it, "all chiefs and no Indians.") If you are one of the strong-willed people, then my advice is to consider that there is usually more than one effective way to solve a problem. If you are dealing with strong-willed people who are miffed about not getting their own way, just try to find consensus as best you can, and let the rest roll right off your back. People are going to be unhappy about various things -- let 'em be. I would not constantly be the one to apologize.

Some possible suggestions:

Limit contact with those that are the most difficult.

Put the worse one/s in "Time Out" and just back off for awhile.

Refuse to be a target.

Refuse to engage.

If you want to say: "I'm sorry" that is all that is needed.
Then be done with it.

Leave the past in the past.

And the biggie? Refuse to take any of it personally.
Here is where I refer to The Four Agreements by don Miguel Ruiz and recommend the 2nd agreement

Don’t take anything personally.
Whatever happens around you, don’t take it personally… Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves. All people live in their own dream, in their own mind; they are in a completely different world from the one we live in. When we take something personally, we make the assumption that they know what is in our world, and we try to impose our world on their world.

Even when a situation seems so personal, even if others insult you directly, it has nothing to do with you. What they say, what they do, and the opinions they give are according to the agreements they have in their own minds…Taking things personally makes you easy prey for these predators, the black magicians. They can hook you easily with one little opinion and feed you whatever poison they want, and because you take it personally, you eat it up….


But if you do not take it personally, you are immune in the middle of hell. Immunity in the middle of hell is the gift of this agreement.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/06/06/the-second-agreement-dont-take-anything-personally/

We were always 'very close.' I'm the middle sister and even with my 3 brothers and parents, it was my job to maintain peace, go along to get along. It didn't matter what they did to me, it was up to me to fix it. I adored my older sister's kids as I didn't have any when they were small. Even as they got older, they spent SIGNIFICANT time with me, so because of her kids, I did everything I could to get along with her.

Since my parents died, things have been ugly. It has been 5-1/2 years. At the 4 year mark, I AGAIN told them both I loved them and I wanted them to be happy, while they are firing off CRUEL e-mails to me. So a year later, they decided to attack my one non-disabled brother who I have always been the closest to. I took his side. They didn't like it.

I'm done. I've apologized over and over and over again (even over my older sister's husband causing $2000 damage to my home and then blaming me). I'm just done. I don't know how many times I've fixed things. My dad even told me just before he died that I needed to stay away from them.

So--I not just lost my parents, I lost my sisters. They create SO MUCH DRAMA.

At age 57, I just don't need this kind of insanity in my life. Sure, it is painful, but I'm really weary of being their scapegoat. It is actually much more painful to have them IN MY LIFE. I even got off facebook because of them. I don't want them to have any way to impact my life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2014 03:21PM by cl2.

is like wearing a "KICK ME" sign. People know they can get away with mistreating you. To me, the whole commandment to forgive 70x7 hurts EVERYONE. It enables (and hurts) badly behaved people when they are surrounded by meek people who put up with them. Because they don't learn to behave better. It also gives them an excuse to demand you to overlook their bad behavior. They get to say things like YOU had the greater sin for not forgiving. That's Bullshit.

Since I don't know you personally, I couldn't say if you are overly sensitive, or if you just have a lot of high-conflict people in your family. My guess, since you are trying so hard to forgive, is that they are the problem. My experience is that the people who try to clean up the problems aren't the ones who caused them. You care more about feelings than they do. You are wearing the KICK ME sign.

I certainly wouldn't "forgive" someone for the first incident. She wouldn't even attempt to clear your name to the employer. And to even ASK you to forgive makes her an even bigger jerk than she already was. What she did is on HER. It's not your problem or responsibility to help her feel better about herself or the incident. By asking, she was screwing with you AGAIN.

My goal would be to move past that incident, rather than hold a grudge. And that would include freely admitting my feelings of anger towards her, admitting that she can never fix it, and realizing that you have moved on to other employment and created something different in your life since then. She hurt you, but she didn't ruin you. She and her feelings are not your problem. My goal would be not to care. If she believes in Jesus, she can ask HIM for forgiveness.

Forgiveness doesn't mean that you have to go back to the way things were before the offense. You don't have to be a doormat.

Forgiveness is more about you than it is the other person. Forgiveness is healing for you and helps you move forward. Forgiveness does not make what the other person did ok nor absolve them of their bad behavior. Forgiveness does not mean you let them continue their bad behavior.

Me too, have been the mediator, the peace maker, the glue that tries to hold everything together.

Some one finally pointed out that I would be better off if I simply refused to engage with any of them. It is a daily challenge.

I bought a JADE egg and put it on my bed stand to help me remember to not Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain.

I let others do the blaming and finger pointing. I can not be responsible for their thoughts/actions. I try not to judge situations nor people.

I try to keep in mind that "Saviors" are the ones who are crucified.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2014 11:24PM by dejavue.