Anybody see this: http://thoughtcatalog.com/samantha-pugsley/2014/08/i-waited-until-my-wedding-night-to-lose-my-virginity-and-i-wish-i-hadnt/

I did not wait, but I also did not grow up Mormon. It's something I've thought a lot about though because I have a daughter. I will not encourage her to wait until marriage. On the other hand, I think sex and choosing sexual partners requires a certain amount of responsibility and thoughtfulness. I haven't figured out yet the best way to approach this topic, and it's a good thing I still have quite a bit of time...

Some excerpts:

"For more than a decade, I wore my virginity like a badge of honor. My church encouraged me to do so, saying my testimony would inspire other young girls to follow suit."

"We were together for six years before we got married. Any time we did anything remotely sexual, guilt overwhelmed me. I wondered where the line was because I was terrified to cross it. Was he allowed to touch my breasts? Could we look at each other naked? I didn’t know what was considered sexual enough to condemn my future marriage and send me straight to Hell."


"When we got home, I couldn’t look anyone in the eye. Everyone knew my virginity was gone. My parents, my church, my friends, my co-workers. They all knew I was soiled and tarnished. I wasn’t special anymore. My virginity had become such an essential part of my personality that I didn’t know who I was without it."

"Every single day is a battle to remember that my body belongs to me and not to the church of my childhood...I’m now thoroughly convinced that the entire concept of virginity is used to control female sexuality."

I think that it's a really bad idea to wait until marriage because it can lead to sexual mismatches. What if your spouse wants sex every day and you only want it once a week? That is going to lead to frustration and unhappiness. You can bridge small differences, but it is impossible to bridge big differences in desire, frequency, and practices.

I read the article and could sympathize with much of what the author was saying.

What I didn't agree with, though, was when she said that purity was just a way to sexually repress women.

While that may be true, it represses men, as well. I know. I married in the temple as a virgin and it was a huge mistake. I feel that my youth and young adulthood were stolen from me by TSCC. My wife and I are 100% sexually incompatible (yes, I am still married to my original spouse). I still struggle to be faithful to her because we have no sex life. Hardly ideal!

I find TSCC's teaching on virginity to be so harmful to both men and women. Remember that the only people that will ever encourage you to be virgins are not virgins themselves.

Love and respect, I say. Her body, her terms.

Have sex when it's her choice, when both partners love and respect themselves and each other.

That was the message I got growing up and it's worked out well so far. Sex wasn't something awful or guilt-ridden, it was just something that was a bit more serious between 2 people.

It's always baffled me that people can say simultaneously that they respect marriage, and yet admit that they married quickly to get laid. How is that respecting marriage?

No way in hell did I wait...in fact, I wish I'd had more experiences than I did.

I think making virginity a classification of yourself is a very skewered way of looking at sex. Once it is gone, what of yourself? Are you somehow less of a person? Are you now sinful? Making it a guilt-ridden concept does no favors to anyone. I too wish I would have had more experiences before marriage. I wish I would have gotten a decent and thorough sex education. How many kids resent their parents' lack of concern about this huge health concern? How many kids could prevent unwanted pregnancies and get a more realistic view of what premarital sex entails if parents, teachers and religious instructors don't give them the help they need? Is it best left up to the public schools, the internet, books? Doctors and nurses could help. I don't know what the best solution is, but education seems to do a world of good to help people avoid many mistakes and make better choices.

Bottom line for me, virginity is highly over-rated. It has its place, but not at the expense of a person's self-esteem.

I started college in 1978 and I saw numerous cases of the virgin/whore complex in my catholic friends. They lost their virginity to their long term boyfriends but when they broke up they all went through their slut phase, bar and frat party hopping and one night stands. By their cultural definition once they were no longer virgins they were sluts, and acted it out. The phase lasted about 6 months and then they got into another stable relationship and carried on as normal.

Virginity as a measure of one's worth is a f-cked up concept. And for parents to think that they "own" their adult children's virginity is sick. Parent's don't own their minor children's virginity but they certainly have a responsibility to educate and protect their children.

Today's sex technology allows avoidance of pregnancy and STD's. Therefore, thou shall have consensual intercourse at will, whenever and wherever two or more consenting adults are gathered. That is my policy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2014 05:44PM by rationalist01.

rationalist01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today's sex technology allows avoidance of
> pregnancy and STD's. Therefore, thou shall have
> consensual intercourse at will, whenever and
> wherever two or more consenting adults are
> gathered. That is my policy.

The biggest issue today is not with those consenting adults but with consenting minors.


According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), in the year 2007, 35% of US high school students were currently sexually active and 47.8% of US high school students reported having had sexual intercourse.[1]

This percentage has decreased slightly since 1991.[2] According to a 1994 study, every year an estimated one in four sexually active teens contracts a sexually transmitted infection (STI).[3]

Teenage pregnancy is four times as prevalent in the United States as in the European Union.[4] However, US teen pregnancy rates have been steadily declining for decades, according to the Centers for Disease control and were at a "record low" as of 2012.[5

Yes, and the reason US teen pregnancy rates are declining is that they are using birth control, especially intrauterine implants. It's not news that young people want to have sex and do. The utter failure of the abstinence movement is illustrated by Texas. Not only do they have the highest rate of teen pregnancies, they have the highest rate of SECOND unwed teen pregnancies!

rationalist01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, and the reason US teen pregnancy rates are
> declining is that they are using birth control,
> especially intrauterine implants.

They may be using birth control, but VERY few gyno's will give an unmarried woman who hasn't been pregnat an IUD. I know because I had to explain to two doctor's that I did all the research and wanted an (copper, not hormonal) IUD when I got mine. And I was 23! Plus they're at least $400 without insurance.

Why is it so hard to get one? Just curious, as im considering that option (ive heard about too many nuvaring oops babies..). Im only 20 so... I figure it would be even harder for me to convince a doctor. I wasnt aware of any potential complications with iuds...??

Both of my daughters just recently got an IUD. One is 20 and the other 22. Neither is married but both live with their boyfriends. One has been in a relationship for 2 years and one 6 months. This is in Utah county.

You are right to mention what we have available to us today in terms of tools for smart and safe sex. So, then it's all about educating pre-teens as to what's available to them. I just don't see the point of holding on to one's virginity. It takes a long time to figure out what you like and what works for you - more so for women.

Even though my kids and I have had and continue to have good communication regarding healthy sexuality, including safe sex, it was still difficult to approach my daughter about safety when she told me she and her boyfriend were planning on having sex. We discussed birth control, her responsibility as well as her boyfriend's, and I gifted her "The Joy of Sex". Fortunately, so far, they've been safe and even though I don't want or know details, she did say that the book has helped them a lot (they've been together over a year).

When my children were younger, I asked both of them to wait until they were in college to have sex. I felt they'd be more emotionally mature to enjoy their experiences with their partners, as well as being safe. And they both waited.

I feel fortunate as a mom, because both of my children have supportive and fun friends, both male and female, and have dated people who are nice to each other. I guess this value has been one that I've tried to teach through my relationship with them as well as my relationships with my friends and colleagues. I enjoy intelligent, humorous, and nice people. So do my kids.

EDIT: I wanted to add that I began talking with my kids about "where babies come from" when they didn't believe the sarcastic I-laid-an-egg-and-sat-on-it-until-you-were-born story anymore. Here are the books that I read and discussed with them, starting around seven years of age:
- "What's the Big Secret?: Talking about Sex with Girls and Boys" by Laurie Krasny Brown (can be used for younger ages)
- "It's So Amazing!: A Book about Eggs, Sperm, Birth, Babies, and Families" by Robie H. Harris
- "It's Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health" by Robie H. Harris
- "Our Bodies, Ourselves" by Boston Women's Health Book Collective (for when they were in junior high and high school)
- "Changing Bodies, Changing Lives: Expanded Third Edition: A Book for Teens on Sex and Relationships" by Ruth Bell (again, when they were older teens)

I wish Dav Pilkey (Captain Underpants author) would have written a book on sexuality for boys because he understands the male prepubescent mindset so well, similar to the way that Judy Blume ("Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret.") understands girl issues, and has published books for them.

Masturbation has been a non-issue at home, meaning, it's a natural thing to do, and so it hasn't come up in discussions, besides when they were quite young and I asked them to touch themselves in their bedrooms instead of in front of others (we're talking toddler age). And then, like I previously mentioned, for the actual physical "how to", I gave my daughter "The Joy of Sex" this past year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2014 01:17PM by toto.

Thanks for that. I have so far found books to be a very good way to discuss and learn about certain topics with my daughter, so I could see this being a good tool in the future too. Sometimes I think people treat their children like babies when it comes to certain things, like sex. At the same time, one must realize as you point out that emotional maturity is important too. There's a middle ground, and communication is important.

Oops, see below. I meant to directly reply to your response.

||
||
\/
\/
\/

You're welcome.

By the way, I didn't grow up Mormon either, so it was a little more natural for me to discuss sex with my kids, because growing up, I was free to decide when and with whom I would have sex, and nudity wasn't taboo. My parents are from Europe, and didn't raise us with the idea that naked = sex, so I raised my kids with similar understanding.

You'll do a great job. Good luck and have fun!

Nothing at all wrong with waiting if it is honestly what YOU want to do.

Problem in mormon circles is that it is too often what you are taught to do, threatened about and even interviewed about.

It is really no ones business what you do with your body. The mormon,inc tries to make you feel guilty about it is the shameful part.

While we are at it - when was the last time you heard the 'licked cupcake' or 'nails in the board' lesson given and applied to the BOYS?

Ugh those lessons are so terrible! I never got them as a yw, luckily. What an awful thing to tell young women.
"No one wants used goods" seriously!?
Im "used goods" and so is my bf, and neither of us has any sort of problem with that! : )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2014 08:18PM by To hell in a handbasket.

This is something I feel very strongly about. Raised LDS, even though I went inactive in my teens I guarded my "purity" valiantly all though HS & College. I "re-entered" the church in college and then served a mission.

After I came home, I was raped by an acquaintance. My parents and family wouldn't talk about it, just wanted me to forget it and put it in the past. I was made to feel soiled and that somehow it had been my fault by my ward bishop, SP and RS (I didn't tell ANY of them, but my parents did and, of course, they felt it "their duty" to pass that information along. Confidentiality my ass.). My bishop told me that "someday, you will find a good man who will be able to look past this and love you. You can still be a mother and have an eternal companion." That was pretty much it for me as far as the church was concerned but I'd be lying if I said it didn't affect me. It took me years of counseling and some really bad times to come to really understand that it was NOT MY FAULT!!

I can't tell you how much I wish my first time had been with one of the really good guys I dated in HS or college.

Sexual purity is used as a way to control women in repressive patriarchal religions, Mormonism included, no question.

Information, birth control are good things! EVERY woman (every man, for that matter), EVERY HUMAN, has the right to control everything that happens with his/her own body.

Since my kids grew up without the repression of the LDS view of sex, they have both had, healthy, normal relationships without weird hangups or unnecessary guilt. Neither of them has ever been the least bit promiscuous and even in early high school (before sex time!) were making good choices on who they wanted to date. My husband and I have always emphasized that sex is something special that should only happen in a long term, caring relationship when you really trust each other. We've also been very strong proponents of birth control! It all seems to have worked out pretty well.

If some of these observations in this post were stated out loud in a family or religious gathering the person so stating would probably be instantly SHUNNED.