Ive been arguing about this with my (believe it or not TBM) therapist for a long while (she thinks I should tell everybody), and I thought I'd send this question forth upon the waters, and let it return after many days:

How and when should I "come out". Does one do such a thing formally, or privately? I've read a number of accounts, of course, but I'd also like to appeal to the forum.


1: circumstances (skip to 2 for appeal)

Dramatis Personae:
·Wife—knows, but I've watered it down alot.
·Dad—Complained to him about all my problems early, in the hopes he could resolve them. He could not. He is severely depressed and regularly contemplates suicide and commits emotional (never physical) abuse toward the rest of my family.
·Mom—Knows, has probably blabbed, and calls to shame me periodically.
·Many brothers and sisters (i'm the oldest) in various stages of life, all of whom are as TBM as I used to be.
·Grandparents—Would not believe anyone who told them I'm out.
·2 kids—2 yrs and 4 mo, respectively, who are adorable, but are regularly the subject of shaming discussions.

Situation:
Just started business with my brother, Wife's family doesn't know anything but that I'm in therapy. Disovered I was only in it 'cause I was told to be. RM, SL Temple Wedding. Employed under father in law. :(


2:How does one do it?

You can see that there are some awkward circumstances here. Should I 'come out?' I expect that people will come to find out if I do not announce my ...apostacy? and may be more shocked than otherwise.

If I do, should I do so all at once, or to limited groups, or individually, or, hell, do like one of those makeover shows with a big reveal and an after party?

Your thoughts are appreciated. I apologize for the length.

So stressful to think about the outcome either way, isn't it? My husband and I aren't sure if we'll ever actually "come out" publicly. More likely gradually and quietly. One benefit of not living near family or in the mountain west is that we could probably lay low for a few years. Maybe just until the older folks are gone... We worry about their stress levels the most - it would devastate a grandma and at least one parent. I don't know if it's worse to just find out about someone's apostasy thru the grapevine or directly from them. Good luck! :)

I am experiencing a similar debate within myself. Short story:

Eldest of parent's 6 children
Nearly BIC (sealed to parents one year after birth)
AP progression deacon-teacher-priest
2 year mission (Sydney Australia Spanish-speaking)
Temple marriage
6 children
Divorced
Excommunicated
Re-baptized
Married
Priesthood blessings restored
Temple sealing in 2003
Wished I never got back in!
Wife unaware of my unbelief
None of the uber-TBM family (including in-laws) aware of my unbelief
Just moved, meaning release from calling as 1st Assistant to HP GL and expect to receive calling in new ward

Health problems with aging parents and aging FIL & MIL, along with the relocation issues and accompanying stress to spouse have kept me silent so far.

Needless to say I have no answer for you! I wish I had one for myself!

If you think you recognize me from what I've posted here, you may be right. Then again.....

In any case, I hope to out myself within the next few years. Now just isn't the time. I keep sane by coming here and other, similar, sites in the meantime.

Good luck!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2014 01:27PM by moose.

moose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am experiencing a similar debate within myself.
> Short story:
>
> Eldest of parent's 6 children
> Nearly BIC (sealed to parents one year after
> birth)
> AP progression deacon-teacher-priest
> 2 year mission (Sydney Australia
> Spanish-speaking)
> Temple marriage
> 6 children
> Divorced
> Excommunicated
> Re-baptized
> Married
> Priesthood blessings restored
> Temple sealing in 2003
> Wished I never got back in!
> Wife unaware of my unbelief
> None of the uber-TBM family (including in-laws)
> aware of my unbelief
> Just moved, meaning release from calling as 1st
> Assistant to HP GL and expect to receive calling
> in new ward
>
> Health problems with aging parents and aging FIL &
> MIL, along with the relocation issues and
> accompanying stress to spouse have kept me silent
> so far.
>
> Needless to say I have no answer for you! I wish I
> had one for myself!
>
> If you think you recognize me from what I've
> posted here, you may be right. Then again.....
>
> In any case, I hope to out myself within the next
> few years. Now just isn't the time. I keep sane my
> coming here and other, similar, sites in the
> meantime.
>
> Good luck!


We KNOW Each Other....

HS,

You read a post and you respond by stating KNOW the poster... You shouldn't do that.

If you really know them then call them and hopefully you're a supporter and not an antagonist, but just the statement that you KNOW them strike fear in every poster's mind and dilutes the desire to be totally open and honest.

No fear here. HS may contact Susan I/S for my email address. I'll be happy to e-mail!

As a matter of fact, I'll send Susan I/S a note now and have her send HS my email address.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2014 12:03PM by moose.

sorry Moose,

I didn't mean to be a douche bag, but I've literally been on RFM, off and on now for 12 year and NEVER found anyone I remotely know in real life. So when I read your story I ws of course drawn in.

Yes I'm about 90% sure that we do in fact know each other...

I forwarded my email address to Susan I/S...I can't wait to make contact and OUT myself to you...

Doubting Thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HS,
>
> You read a post and you respond by stating KNOW
> the poster... You shouldn't do that.
>
> If you really know them then call them and
> hopefully you're a supporter and not an
> antagonist, but just the statement that you KNOW
> them strike fear in every poster's mind and
> dilutes the desire to be totally open and honest.

Definitely a supporter...

You could borrow one from the gay guys on this one from La Cage Aux Folles.

I am what I am
I am my own special creation.
So come take a look,
Give me the hook or the ovation.
It's my world that I want to take a little pride in,
My world, and it's not a place I have to hide in.
Life's not worth a damn,
'Til you can say, "Hey world, I am what I am."
I am what I am,
I don't want praise, I don't want pity.
I bang my own drum,
Some think it's noise, I think it's pretty.
And so what, if I love each feather and each spangle,
Why not try to see things from a diff'rent angle?
Your life is a sham 'til you can shout out loud
I am what I am!
I am what I am
And what I am needs no excuses.
I deal my own deck
Sometimes the ace, sometimes the deuces.
There's one life, and there's no return and no deposit;
One life, so it's time to open up your closet.
Life's not worth a damn 'til you can say,
"Hey world, I am what I am!"

Personally I never made a big announcement about the church ( or the other). I just lived my life neither hiding nor flaunting. A lot of years later I'm glad I did it that way. It's not easy though to be yourself in a lot of situations but it will make you feel good about yourself if you can do it.

Personally, I see making the announcement as giving the church more importance than it's worth. I think a life lived honestly and fully is a better statement.

I like your approach. Flying under the radar and just living my life works best for me.

I like the quote from La Cage Aux Folles. It can apply to anyone.

One time about thirty years ago I explain to my bishop that "it's just the way I am." He couldn't bend his mind around that idea. He's CES with bishop, stake president, mission president under his belt now. And he's still a clueless ass hat who thinks everyone should be a robot.

The very first thing is NOT to place yourself in danger if you come out. Don't ever reveal your nonbelief if your job/career is in danger. Do not reveal your nonbelief if someone will viciously gossip about you. The safest way around those who would do you harm is to say that you're struggling with a few things but are working on it.

Years ago, I was a teaching assistant to a very powerful professor who was a stake president. Even though my religion or beliefs should not have mattered, they did in his eyes. Of course, he didn't ask me directly if I was LDS, but said, you're a member kof the church, aren't you? Of course I was, but I didn't tell him that I considered it a fucking cult.

Fortunately, a fellow grad student noted my coffee cup and told me to ditch it. I'm glad I did. He ended up giving me a powerful recommendation that advanced my career. I don't delude myself with thinking I would have gotten the same recommendation if he knew I was an EXMO. And, for the record, it is illegal and immoral at a state institution to ask about religion.

Very best wishes and remember that you can always express yourself with impunity on this board! The Boner.

There are many of us on the board whose reveals have cost them marriages, family relationships, promotions, jobs, and many other opportunities. There are people who will tell your spouse to leave you if you don't believe any more -- often including that spouse's relatives, your bishop, neighbors, "friends," etc.

Don't assume your reveal will have no or few negative consequences. The opposite is probably more likely. In your case, OP, be very careful, since you have family members with depression/suicidal feelings. And, given that you're employed by your FIL, that's just another reason to be discreet.

What you DON'T want to do is come busting out of the closet while in a vulnerable position, especially with respect to money or career. If you get fired by your FIL, that's not going to look good when you go job-hunting.


If you really need/want to talk about your spiritual evolution, do it here, or maybe bring up one specific issue to carefully discuss with one family member. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of not only valor, but common sense. I know how awful it feels to smile and nod when you are thinking in your head, "This is utter bu!!$%^$," but at least you have the privacy of your thoughts, which no one can control, and us here at the board.

And if you work with the types of TBMs who are nosy or intolerant of other points of view, you really should be considering a career move.

Even though we've been trained as Mormons that we are supposed to report our religious status to anyone who asks, that's really not the way people in normal society operate. Your religious beliefs are nobody's business. There is no benefit to you of discussing this with them.

Both boner and icedtea make excellent points. In a nutshell, you have to know your audience if you don't want to get booed off the stage.

I have always thought that as long as you only let people see you as questioning and searching you have an opportunity to be more honest without risking judgement. Mystery is your friend and no one really has a right to know your conclusions and see your deepest self. There is nothing wrong with keeping your cards firmly against your chest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2014 09:36PM by blueorchid.

I've been out for a year and only told people as it came up. Strangely enough it didn't come up until recently with my parents. They are devastated and are upset that I didn't come to them when I had questions so that they could "give me the other side". I explained that I know their side of everything, but they seem to think they could keep this from happening. My parents felt like it was a big slap in the face that I didn't sit them down and tell them rather than casually mentioning it in conversation. But after making the decision to leave, I don't feel it's anyone's business what I believe. So I don't know that I could have done it any other way. You have to go with what feels right to you. But from my experience, my parents and siblings were upset that I didn't tell them in a "sit down, let's have a talk" sort of way.

You are the person most responsible for your happiness. Do it your way. Some are happier telling everyone and making a big deal about it. Some continue in the church under the radar. And everyone else falls somewhere in between. Do what is best for you. No one else matters.

For me, I told my wife. Thats it.

I quit going to church 7 years ago.

Since then,I have told others that I no longer go - if I am asked. I don't announce it. If someone asks what calling I have, I tell them I do not go to church anymore. If they ask why, I tell them I no longer believe it is true. Rarely they ask for more info than that. If they do, I tell them I would be happy to discuss it but often I come across as anti and I do not want people to think I am a negative person. I would rather not talk about it unless they are really interested. If they are not really interested in the facts, it is a total waste of time. I am not out trying to deconvert people that want to believe.

That is what works for me. You need to find what works for you and makes you happy. Like I said at the beginning - you are the one most responsible for your happiness.

I've been dealing with this issue for a year and a half. My immediate family have also left TSCC so they are not an issue. My problem is extended family, business clients and long time friends.

I have considered inviting the friends to lunch and dropping the news on them. That would be an awkward lunch and could lead to the other two groups finding out.

I have decided to just live. I don't owe anyone an explanation of my religious beliefs. The idea that a person needs to wear their religion like a badge is so Mormon. People who have not been raised to ask everyone the golden questions, consider religion a private affair. If I'm asked, I'll answer honestly, otherwise, it's my business.

I have the luxury of living in a different area of the Salt Lake Valley than my friends, relatives and clients, so my non attendance at church was not something they could see.

I think you could just slip into inactivity. Start living the life you want to live. If you get questions answer them with statements. Example: "I haven't seen you at church lately", answer "Yeah, I haven't been there". Most people will stop there. If they ask the next question which is "Why?", you simply say, "I didn't want to go". Then you quickly ask a question about their life and leave the awkward behind.

In short, I don't think you owe people an explanation about your faith journey. It's private.

My advice is to keep it very quiet, very "watered down" as you said, and slowly, very very very slowly, back out of activity, and never once get into a discussion about your personal beliefs. Keep them personal.
Why do we think we need to tell everyone?
I told my husband that I didn't believe anymore, and some of my adult children had left before me so I had some support.

Respect their right to their personal beliefs just as you want yours respected.

Might want to talk about the 11th Article of Faith --paraphrasing, if necessary.

The Articles of Faith - #11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may

It helps to be an example of tolerance. Be polite, civil, and stay out of negativity about religious issues. Smile and be nice. It really does pay off. Just because you changed your mind, doesn't mean anyone else will or wants to.

Each situation is very different, so we do things differently. My advice comes from trial and error and finally landing on something that is very powerful and works. My true believing husband and I "Agreed to Disagree" and stopped any criticism of the other's religious ideas. None. It worked very well. We had a 50+ year marriage before he passed in Jan of 2013.

I'm assuming you don't believe the Church for doctrinal or historical reasons. If that's the case, I think it's important for you to hold the moral high ground. Tell them you found something about the Church that is simply incompatible with your sense of honesty and justice, and you will have nothing to do with a corrupt institution. You don't need to give them any detail, unless they insist, and even then, only as much as they ask.

The effect of this strategy is that they will still respect you and your integrity even if they think you're mistaken about the Church. If they want to discuss the subject and start doing some research to prove you wrong, there's the bonus probability of some of them entering crisis of faith on their own.

Given your context, I think it's the safer route to go.

Two possibilites:

1/ Back slowly away. This works for a lot of people, but with a big involved family situation might not.

2/ Compose a short, to the point, message to send to all concerned. Invite personal questions by email. Then relent not in the slightest regard! Don't step foot in the church until you are positive everyone gets the message. (one year, at least.)

Then, possibly, attend at special events as long as everyone understands why you are there. Do not wear the uniform-- wear open collared, colored shirt. Wear socks and sandals. That will keep them at bay!

Best

I asked the same question as my first post here on RfM (about six months ago). My own personal advice is to only tell those closest to you. I only told my immediate family and very close friends. Otherwise they'll wonder what's going on with you or will be offended that you didn't tell them sooner. I personally just don't see the need to tell everyone and especially not publicly (Facebook) where you can ruin relationships if people get "offended" at your leaving (dumb, I know, but true). You may want to write a letter so you get it all out at once - there are some good letters to read on PostMormon.org which can help you get ideas. Then follow-up with a meeting or phone calls as needed to tell them that it's not personal, but that you just don't believe.

My own experience has been rather fortunate. My DW and my own family are entirely on the same page and are "out" (inactive). Half of my immediate family didn't care (was already out) and the other half ultimately took it well. I feel pity from some, but I sense no anger or resentment. As for our close friends, it was awkward at first to have conversations but it's gotten a lot better recently. We're cool with talking about the church with them and speaking the same TBM-speak that we always have in the past... just for the sake of keeping the conversation going and avoiding the appearance of the "evil and angry exmo". Maybe it's like trust... TBMs feel you break their trust when going exmo, but you can build it back up once they realize that you're not out to "get them". Anyway, some of our [assigned] ward "friends" have not been able to handle it well and try to avoid us... but I'm not offended by it and just chalk it up as personality (or brainwashing) that makes them unable to handle difficult situations. I actually feel sorry for them instead of being angry at them... they're the real victims of TSCC.

In short, what's worked for me so far is mutual respect. If you respect them and maybe throw them a TBM bone once and a while, they'll respect you. I don't see the need to actively deconvert anyone... but don't have a problem going head-to-head if someone wants to and I know it won't ruin our relationship.

I don't have any advice on your work situation as my situation is different. I can imagine that it will certainly add complications.

Best of luck to you. I will say this, for me at least, I have never been happier in my life. I honestly didn't believe people here on RfM when they told me this as I made my first post. I thought that they were faking it. But I am really happy and much more relaxed that I no longer had to hide my growing disbelief.