Especially in America. In several states atheists can't even hold public office. No other group is as discriminated against.

Because of original sin.

If you are "godless," you become a hiss and a byword, a repudiation of all the salvation offered by the churches. Your very existence is a threat, which is why they can't have you in leadership of anything.

If people got to know atheists as people manifesting the basic good nature of mankind, all the cathedrals would fall and people would not need a savior. They could just forgive each other and forget about victimless crimes like masturbation, blasphemy and reading non-approved websites/books.


Kathleen Waters
Atheist

(One of many trying to be the best person we can be without carrot and without stick--an apparent crime in America)

I don't know, Steve.

I think there probably several reasons people might have.

Religion has a vested interest in drilling into their adherents that the "godless" or the "unchurched" are bad.

Religion's power depends on people believing that they are dependent on a god to be good. Religion would be out of business if people caught on that you don't need religion for the few good things that religion offers.

People love the opiate that religion feeds them. They don't particularly like others pointing out the obvious about religious claims. They have no verifiable evidence to back up their claims so they attach the messenger.

The only atheist I've seen right-wing people love is Ayn Rand. But I think most of them are in denial about how she was when she was alive.

Unless you are talking about self hating atheists, the only people left to hate atheist is theists, meaning people that believe in god.

Perhaps many of the people that have faith there is a god see atheists as a threat to their faith.

I think they see us as party poopers. We come along telling them that their invisible friends aren't real, like big kids telling the littlies that Santa's not real.

People seem to feel threatened by groups that they think will come in and take over.

They felt threatened by the blacks gaining the same rights as whites. They felt threatened by women entering the work force more and more and taking on jobs which only men had traditionally held before. They even felt threatened by women gaining the right to vote. Why that would just upset everything.

Many still feel threatened by same-sex marriage, because somehow they think it will threaten their traditional marriages.

People feel threatened by atheists because they think it means that somehow their religious freedoms will also be threatened.

Any time a long-held tradition is challenged, people get uptight and feel threatened. They fight to keep the status quo.

It's the people who realize that what other people do or believe won't affect them, who help to bring about change. People who are secure in their own positions don't feel threatened by people who think or do things a little differently than they do.

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People feel threatened by atheists because they
> think it means that somehow their religious
> freedoms will also be threatened.

I must say, I find the term 'religious freedom' to be an oxymoron. What could be LESS like freedom than thinking a judgmental invisible man is watching you every second of the day (even in the can) and will torture you forever if you make a tiny mistake?

Is a new thing that was started by the communists.

I think the hatred comes from fear. Atheists represent a threat to their belief systems.

Maybe because non-atheists know they can't control them.

Ron Burr

This is a good question. And at the same time i would ask, why is the god theory so popular?

Godzilla Wrote:
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> This is a good question. And at the same time i
> would ask, why is the god theory so popular?

It seems to be reassuring to people, despite the threat of eternal torture. All Christian denominations are somehow convinced that only THEY are right. How they think they 'know' this is the biggest mystery.

Also, people just go along with the crowd. To say you don't share their group-think marks you as an outsider.

The Mormon fraud has distorted most ex Mormon's ability to think about spiritual matters in an objective way. It is the enduring legacy of having once been a brain washed Mormon that so many later become atheists when they finally recognize the Mormon fraud. That they seem so sure of themselves after proclaiming, "I know this church is true..." for years, perhaps decades, is the biggest mystery of all.

Greyfort thought he should keep his thoughts to himself on this post. I won't.

There's no evidence of any kind for anything "spiritual," or for any "god." Atheists rationally reject belief in such claims, since the claims have no supporting evidence. That's not being "sure of yourself," it's being rational and intelligent. Were someone able to present actual evidence of something "spiritual" or some "god," most atheists would accept that such things exist without missing a beat. It's just that nobody ever has managed to present any such evidence.

What's a "mystery" is why otherwise rational people "believe" in such unsupportable nonsense, and then go around insisting it's "True" based on obvious fallacies -- mostly arguments from ignorance and incredulity. Not believing unsupportable claims is neither being arrogantly "sure," nor is it mysterious. Just reasonable.

Oh dear. No, I think maybe I'd better keep my thoughts to myself. LOL

Carry on.

The same reason you might hate your little brother for getting ice cream when you have to wash the dishes.

It's an American thing. Quickly fading

When belonging to a religious group it is 'your' community; anything that differs from this very important group you belong to is a threat to your very being. And, voila, you have dislike, distrust and hatred.

Often members of a religious group have no real reason for taking a stance against atheism other than hearing in church that atheism is the devil's doing and that a good member of the church must stay far away from the devil and following his evil antics and must follow what the church and the church's leaders advocate.

Do most church members even understand the term atheist? No.

An atheist is an individual who has a lack of a belief in god, gods, or any supernatural being. Atheists come in all kinds of shapes, colors and sizes and do not belong to one big organized group called atheism. There are different groups they can join if they choose to, and this is done for a variety of reasons. Some atheists choose to take a pro-active approach as an atheist while others do not choose this path. The one thing they have in common is the lack of belief in god, gods, or any supernatural being.

Yes, tribalism is part of the answer. But atheists are despised more than ANY group, with the possible exception of pedophiles.

Atheists are not hated in every culture. Humans have been told to hate rival religions or unbelief for thousands of years. Protestants vs. Catholics, Shiite vs. Sunni, Muslim vs. Hindu. We could go on and on about propaganda against different cultures as well. Russians vs. the western world, communism vs. capitalism and so on.

At the end of the day we are just another species of primate running around on a spinning planet located in the outer edge of the milky way galaxy. Really makes culture seem ridiculous at the end of the day. Do we really think a god really would make a planet for primates to live on just for a morality exercise???

There are probably a lot of reasons. Here are a few speculations:

1. Anti-intellectualism. Americans in particular hate intellectuals, and there is a strong corralation between formal education and prevalence of atheism. I do not mean to imply that anyone is correct or incorrect in their beliefs by stating this, or to make stereotypes, but the statistics back it up, and many people in the US actively dislike academia or intellectualism.

2. Class warfare. Wealthy people are more likely to be atheists. This is a similar dynamic to the first item.

3. Cognitive-dissonance. Most people in the US are not rooted in a firm intellectual foundation of their religion. They pursue religion based on emotion and instilled behavior / social norms. Atheists provide an intellectual argument against which theists are not prepared, so they react out of fear.

4. True believers. I think that this group is a minority, but there are some theists that are so occified in their religion, intellectually, emotionally, and behaviorally, that they view any challenge to their faith as an attack. For theists, atheists are the most alien, and get a lot of flack from them. However, they are just as likely to be hostile to groups with very similar beliefs that vary on much finer points. These people tend to be radicalized. Of course, you see these people on the atheist side too. I think Dawkins is a true believer.

Most people go through life with the same beliefs their parents spoon fed them. It takes courage and brainpower to challenge those beliefs, not matter what your end result is. Few people are raised atheist, so most atheists have challenged their childhood religious beliefs.

As a fellow atheist, I think we should give theists a lot of time to come to terms with reality. In the meantime, atheists will be thought of as being evil...I think we can handle it.

People are afraid of them. Adults like little kids fear what they don;t know anything about.

People allow churches to hand them a set of morals and so people think that atheists must be immoral. They think fearing Hell and desiring Heaven are what keeps them from going feral. God fearing is a word for a good person, so if you do not fear god, you must be evil.

IMO, this is immature and childish. True morality stems from empathy, not greediness and fear. You are kind because you know how cruelty feels. You do not steal because you do not wish to be stolen from. That is a much higher morality and allows you to decide that gays and coffee are not bad and spending your time in the temple won't help anyone, especially yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2014 04:49AM by axeldc.

I believe it is the sheer number of people throughout the world who have in the past and present embraced magical thinking to make sense of a very unpredictable and frightening world that in turn has been able to then.......

create a huge number of people who hate and fear atheists because atheists threaten the majority of people's way of living and understanding this thing we call life.

IMO, this answers why atheists are so hated and why the hate is so prevalent and strong.

Thankfully science has been the deal-breaker that is creating a decline in atheist hating and misunderstanding in parts of our world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2014 04:51AM by presleynfactsrock.

Why is any group so bated?
Please don't act as if atheists have the corner market on being bated.
They can scream persecuted as much as any other group screaming persecuted and victim.

Some humans just need to feel justified by thinking they are bated for a special reason

angela Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is any group so bated?
> Please don't act as if atheists have the corner
> market on being bated.
> They can scream persecuted as much as any other
> group screaming persecuted and victim.
>
> Some humans just need to feel justified by
> thinking they are bated for a special reason

I don't know what you mean by 'bated' (hated?) but can you think of any other 'group' as marginalized as atheists in the USA? Atheists are forbidden from running for public office in seven states. Can you imagine if that ban was in place for women or any ethnic group... or a specific religion for that matter?

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."..........Stephen Roberts

I don't think they're hated. If anything I think they get the easiest time out of all groups. Then again, I do live in Europe where atheists are practically worshipped by the media and a lot of people here would love to wipe religion off the planet. I appreciate it will be different in the US though.

poin0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I appreciate it will be different in the
> US though.

It is. Religion and atheism aren't topics which come up a lot in Canada either. At least not in my part of the country. I don't know about other areas.

But there is no sentiment of atheist-hating where I live.

When you drive over the border and wander around in either the States or Canada, they feel pretty much the same. The cities look the same, the stores are often the same. But having so many American friends on-line has shown me where our cultures are definitely different. The attitude towards religion is one which is quite apparent.

IMO, it is because of what God is. God is a projection on the comsic screen of your sense of self and your world-view. God is not the external, self-existent entity that the theists promote. There is no such being. But as the maintainer of your sense of self, God must be all-powerful, unchallengeable, the source of all things, and on and on.

Then it stands to reason that the most important duty of anybody whose egos are fragile to defend those egos with every fiber of their being. So they externalize those egos and their components, and then visciously attack anybody who dares challenge them. They turn challenges to themselves into a challenge to that God whom they have invented, and then they can make the "other" out to be the bad guy, and the rest of society agrees with them, and they are therefore justified in hating their attackers.

I think politics play a part as well. If you look at a map of countries where atheism is problematic, they tend to be religiously fundamentalist countries (and yes, I do count the USA among them). In these countries, the debate around atheism isn't just held in the court of public opinion, it's held in judicial courts with real life consequences.

Politics and religions everywhere have always formed unholy unions in order to strengthen eachother's rule. Money and power are exchanged in the process while the people are fleeced.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2014 08:07AM by rt.

They are not hated. I am one of those "uneducated" Christians that all you "wise" people mock. I do not hate you, what I don't agree with is your insistance that I stop believing in my Lord and Savior. I don't insist you believe what I believe, it is your free choice. It is also my free choice to believe. I pray for you because I love you and am sorry that the Mormon cult has made you bitter towards a loving God. That being said, believe what you want, just please stop mocking my beliefs and stop trying to take away my rights to live my faith. What I do not understand is if you really do not believe in any God, why do you get so angry about others believing in Him? I do not claim to know all the answers, I just know that at the age of 4 I met Jesus while I was all alone without any outside influence. I was all alone and God called me and I prayed and accepted Jesus into my life. You don't have to believe it, but please stop mocking it. Please try showing some respect to others, just because you do not understand something doesn't make it untrue. Have a wonderful day.

We are not mocking you or trying to force you to stop believing in whatever you want to believe.

What atheists don't like is when religion oversteps into laws. There is supposed to be seperation of church and state, yet there is not. The laws concerning things like abortion and gay marriage are/were steeped in religion. Gay marriage is/was outlawed because a lot of religions see homosexuality as immoral. These morals or rules come from religion, and everyone else is forced to live with them regardless of their beliefs.

Interested Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are not hated. I am one of those
> "uneducated" Christians that all you "wise" people
> mock. I do not hate you, what I don't agree with
> is your insistance that I stop believing in my
> Lord and Savior. I don't insist you believe what
> I believe, it is your free choice. It is also my
> free choice to believe. I pray for you because I
> love you and am sorry that the Mormon cult has
> made you bitter towards a loving God. That being
> said, believe what you want, just please stop
> mocking my beliefs and stop trying to take away my
> rights to live my faith. What I do not understand
> is if you really do not believe in any God, why do
> you get so angry about others believing in Him? I
> do not claim to know all the answers, I just know
> that at the age of 4 I met Jesus while I was all
> alone without any outside influence. I was all
> alone and God called me and I prayed and accepted
> Jesus into my life. You don't have to believe it,
> but please stop mocking it. Please try showing
> some respect to others, just because you do not
> understand something doesn't make it untrue. Have
> a wonderful day.

Please tell me how you concluded that folks who, by definition, don't believe in a god are bitter about or towards such a thing?

If you believe in something ridiculous, that belief is fair game for ridicule. I will stop mocking ridiculous beliefs when those who profess those beliefs stop trying to impose them on those of us who do not. (Public prayer, anti-choice, religious tests for public office all come readily to mind.)

You, of course, have every right to believe whatever you wish. You do not, however, have a right not to be offended when someone else chooses to express disagreement with said beliefs.

No one is disrespecting you. Your beliefs, on the other hand, must earn respect. This is done by demonstrating their validity, not merely by demanding they be respected. Taliban, anyone?

p.s. Do you realize how condescending and whiney your comment sounds?

Sterling

Probably the biggest misunderstanding of all time is that godless people are inherently less moral than god fearing people. Which is absolute bullshit.

I was in another forum and someone was mentioning how they were surprised by Adrian Peterson's actions towards his child, stating that he seemed to be an upright person, even religious. It was the "even religious" part that really got to me, as if they are automatically on a higher plane of living just for believing superstition.

Just Wow.

I'm a christian and I don't hate athiests. Many of them are intelligent and fun to be around.

What I don't like is being told that I'm stupid for my beliefs, especially when I haven't even been asked my beliefs. Some people hear the word "christian" and assume that I must believe all kinds of things, most of them not even true.

I disliked being told what I believe and then made fun of for those beliefs when I dont' even hold those beliefs.

I dislike being told who I hate, when no one has even asked me (and the truth is that I can't think of anyone or any group that I do hate).

I also dislike sweeping generalizations and lumping everyone from a particular group (especially one as diverse as christianity) as having homogenous beliefs, intelligence and likes/dislikes.

Do all athiests and/or agnostics believe the same thing? Do you all have the same amount of intelligence and scientific knowledge? Do ALL of you hate christians?

Of course not! You know how you find that out? Try treating each person as an individual and get to know them instead of assuming that you know what they are like and believe because of a particular label they chose to associate themselves with.

(okay, getting off my soapbox now xD)

You don't hate atheists, you just think they are despicable slime who persecute and torment those who love Our Lord and Savior.

I see. [reply to poster 'Interested']



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2014 10:29AM by Brother Of Jerry.

Yeah, see? That's what I was trying to say. Whenever a group thinks that another group is coming in to take over, that's when they feel threatened.

Men thought women were taking away their jobs by entering the workforce and that their homes would fall apart. Whites thought that blacks would take over their jobs and neighbourhoods. A lot of straight people still think that same-sex marriage is somehow going to negatively impact their straight marriages.

If atheists simply want the government to mean it when they say that there is a separation of religion and state, it is somehow taken as a threat to religious freedom. That somehow it means that they're being told that they shouldn't be religious.

There is clearly a perception of threat there. People have always been resistant to change.

You can't judge all atheists due to a few obnoxious ones who think that the world should think just like they do. There are plenty of obnoxious Christians as well. The Mormons can be some of the worst offenders - the ones who shun family and friends simply because they think that we should think just like them, or we're not even worthy of being around me.

How much time and energy do they spend trying to get people back into the fold because they believe we should all think just like they do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2014 10:40AM by Greyfort.

Fear.

Steve Davis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Especially in America. In several states atheists
> can't even hold public office. No other group is
> as discriminated against.

This statement is false. It is true that some states still have religious tests on the books but they are all illegal and unenforceable and have been unconstitutional for about 220 years.

It's like sodomy laws, many states still have them on the books, but since 2003 when the Supreme court ruled in Lawrence v Texas, they are all null and void.

Same thing with religious tests, except it didn't happen in 2003, it happened in 1789.

Right, ASteve. Exactly so.

The Constitution explicitly forbids any religious tests and the Constitution trumps state law

bona dea unregistered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Constitution explicitly forbids any religious
> tests and the Constitution trumps state law

Yes. It does. The supreme court also forbade school sanctions prayer in public schools. How's that working out in Texas, Mississippi and South Carolina?

Just sayin'

Sterling

I am not sure what I believe although I am not an atheist. I do not hate atheists. One of my best friends is an atheist and we get along fine. What I do dislike is the attitude of superiority that some posters and famous atheist writers have. Coupled with ignorance of history and the tendency to lump all religion in with the lowest common denominator they get on my last nerve. I feel the same way about religious people who hate and mock people who dont believe as they do. In fact I see them as two sides of the same coin. All atheists do not fit into this category. Neither do many atheists here,but there are enough outspoken atheists who do and they give the movement a bad name. Combined with misogynist viewpoints of some and bad behavior of others it is not surprising that they are getting back lash. If you want to liked and respected,being an intolerant jerk is not the way to go

I don't know, but it's handy when door-knockers come. I just tell them I'm an atheist and they vanish.

A concrete view of reality is to me a religion. If someone else’s concrete view of reality contradicts my religion then I experience the uncomfortable feeling called cognitive dissonance. Most people hate the feeling of cognitive dissonance and thus hate those who bring up this feeling.
A good scientist to me is someone that is open, even actively looks for, experience that contradicts their own understanding of reality. Only such a person earns my acknowledgement as being non-religious and a scientist. A person that neurotically is driven to attack others whose experience differs from their own is religious. I like the Zen and Tao idea of the don’t know mind.
From http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articles/not-knowing/
“Not-knowing” is emphasized in Zen practice, where it is sometimes called “beginner’s mind.” An expert may know a subject deeply, yet be blinded to new possibilities by his or her preconceived ideas. In contrast, a beginner may see with fresh, unbiased eyes. The practice of beginner’s mind is to cultivate an ability to meet life without preconceived ideas, interpretations, or judgments.
And from https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140208172908-103827-beginner-s-mind-the-value-in-saying-i-don-t-know
I believe that the comfort to say "I don't know" is fundamental to being a good executive. Intellectual curiosity, being open to new ideas, and the willingness to momentarily suspend disbelief in the face of unorthodox approaches are vital preconditions to being able to reward disruption.

Ideas, opinions, and expertise get in the way of knowing what we don't know. Given that start-ups and venture are premised on building and funding innovation, refusal to admit ignorance, unwillingness to ask for clarification, to avoid learning can blind one to the clarity and creativity that exist in a beginner's mind. "Knowing" does not allow us anything new, no surprises, no insights, no discoveries.

When I worked for Art Samberg, a brilliant investor and founder of Pequot Capital, I was consistently impressed by his ability to listen and to learn. He would often ask people for their views; the chance to showcase knowledge to a billionaire investor would drive people into long monologues. When then asked what he thought, he would often say "I don't know enough about it to comment" and walk out of the room. The lesson: there is no shame in admitting you don't know, rather, the real shame lies in making your "intelligence" so much a part of your identity that you are afraid to ask or admit a lack of knowledge.

The concept of beginner's mind is not limited to Buddhism. Frank Herbert said, "“The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand.” While Proust wrote, "“The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.”

Our learnings and experiences often help us process a complex world, however, I believe that it is important that we work to maintain beginner's mind over and over again in order to not let "knowledge" trap us from seeing innovation and possibilities.