This totally ruined my night last night. It's from a guy I baptized on the mish:

Subject: Hey superstar

XXXXXX

Long time no talk. It was 15 yrs ago this week that you took me down for the count. Still counting the blessings.

Heading out to slc this weekend w my 12 yr old for our first priesthood session together.

We should try to meet up for conference....maybe next year?

Hope you and the family are well.

XXXX>

This is a killer to me. This is how the cult gets passed down from generation to generation. I was responsible for teaching this guy and he and his family are hardcore in.

Don't know how best to handle it. He would be crushed to know that I left because I found out it was all a lie.

Not sure how even to respond at this point....

But this is not really about you, is it? This is his life, not yours.
The point, I think it to recognize that you don't have any control over other people.
It's OK to let it go. He's happy. He likes his choices.

Just because you changed your mind, doesn't mean he will.

We all have the same rights to our choices.

I prefer to be happy for people who have chosen what they prefer in their lives.

How to respond? I'd say: happy to hear you are doing well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 02:34PM by SusieQ#1.

Thanks, you totally don't in any way get it though.

brucermalarky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, you totally don't in any way get it
> though.


Oh yes, I am sure I do. You are taking something on yourself that is not about you. I think you are taking something personally that is not about you.
He has the same rights to be Mormon that you have to leave it.
I think it's important we don't take things personally that are not about us. You are upset because you did that.
Just something to think about.

Trust me. You don't get it. You weren't a missionary and I doubt your "self help" one size fits all outlook has anything to do with this situation.

This is about deep integrity and it is about the OP.

Wow, thanks for telling me how I feel. However, unfortunately, it was another swing and a miss.

I'm upset for 2 reasons. 1st, one fo the primary reasons he joined the church was based off of my testimony that it was true and the relationship he and I had. He trusted me and believed in my. It turns out that I was wrong.

I am happy that he is happy, but that doesn't change the fact that he gives 10% of his money to LDScorp and is raising his family in a church that is a lie.

That makes me very unhappy for the role that I played in it.

I'm sorry if you disagree with my feelings and feel that I really feel differently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 02:46PM by brucermalarky.

brucermalarky
I presented a different opinion and approach. It doesn't work for you, so ignore it. No need to get more angry about it. Just move on.

I felt that way about my children, they're all hard core LDS. I felt like I totally messed up their lives and the lives of my grandchildren. I was the one who refused to listen until they'd grown up and left home. I was the one who shoved it all down everyone's throat.

Every time they thank me for raising them in the gospel I get physically ill. If I could turn back time and redo it I would make things so different.

Im with you, bruce. sad to see that his son will now be raised in this mess.
not a healthy place for young people, male or female.
but, of course, it could definitely be worse.
at least you werent responsible for introducing him to a violent gang that his son later became part of. believe it or not, there are worse things than being a mormon ;)
if it were me, i would just email him back and explain my situation, and let him know i regret introducing him to something i later found out wasnt a good thing. he might not understand, but i think it would make you feel better

I was trying to comment on this in another post too, but I want to expand the thought here. It is common for us to think that we are more important than we really are. Inherently we are not very good influencers. You had a part to play in this man's conversion, but it is doubtful that it was much. He might even THINK you had a big part to play, but it is much more likely that his perception of you and your testimony, not you yourself and your direct actions, had the impact you are taking responsibility for. Your part to play in this was minimal, even if both of you feel like it was more. You can't take on yourself the responsibility for other people's actions. It isn't rational and will hurt you in the long run.

Take my advice for what it is. It has been an extremely helpful and healthy way of looking at things for me.

We all just do the best we can with the understanding that we have at the time. If we knew better, we would have done better. My opinion is "live and let live".

Be up front With him. Apologize and ask for his forgiveness.

He may be happy, but it is still a lie.

Honesty is the best policy?

I wonder if you would feel better telling him the truth about leaving and why. His response and decisions are his own, and you most likely won't change his outlook, but theres something about being forthcoming that is good for the inner self.

I feel for you. I thank Goodness every day that all of my baptisms went inactive almost immediately.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 02:40PM by blueorchid.

I get it...having been in the same situation. I received an e-mail similar to this about six years ago. I apologized profusely. I was straight up and I told them why I left the cult. I listed the reasons. I told them that I felt bad for convincing them into joining the cult, but would feel worse if I was not honest in disclosing what I had found out. Never heard back.

Ouch, this would hit me pretty hard if I got it too. I feel pretty lucky in that the people I baptized probably didn't continue with the religion. I don't have to carry that.

Now, just some friendly advice, but I'd take another look at Susie Q#1's advice. One of the healthiest approaches to life is to not take responsibility for the actions of other people. I'm not saying it is wrong for you to feel bad about this, but the only decision you made what to try and sell your religion. Accepting that religion and passing down the religion to a kid and to a family are not decisions that you made. It isn't healthy for you to continue bearing that responsibility. It won't be useful either.

So, what should you do in this situation? Well, that IS your responsibility. Whether you say something, or if you don't say something, is the burden you should take upon yourself. You either get to say something and have all of the consequences that come from that, or not say something and have all of the consequences of that. Which choice are you willing to live with?

Oh, I'm definitely going to tell him. I just don't know what the best way to do it is.

Do I simply respond with something like:

Hey, man great to hear from you, glad you and the fam are doing well. That's great you are taking your son to SLC, should be a great time with him.

Just so you know, I made the decision to leave the church and am no longer a part of it.

Wife and kids are doing great. Let's definitely meet up some time, it would be great to see you. Thanks for the email.

Or do I hit him with an apology and all the reasons I left and then email him the CES letter? That's the choice I'm really facing.

Leaning towards the 2nd approach though.

Why not meet with him for lunch someday?

If you do let him know over email, I think that you should be as honest as possible. I like the second option you are considering. Personally I would try my hardest not to be short or betray a bad tone in the email. Also, the CES letter is great in this situation, but I would wait until he asks you why you aren't religious anymore. That may or may not happen. Also, I'd make sure to keep the line open so that he can ask you questions at any time. Most likely this will make him question and doubt a lot of things and he might want help finding more info.

One thing to consider is that you know the guy better than anyone, and you also know yourself. Use that to help guide your response as well.

I'd have a rough time with this too, so don't get too down on yourself for what you are feeling.

I lean toward the first approach. Just be polite, state the facts simply, and if he wants more information, like your laundry list of reasons and/or the CES letter, then you can share. Don't re-missionary him by attempting to de-convert. He's happy. Leaving the church is miserable for a while, THEN you're happy. Why try to put him through that when he's clearly not ready?

You wrote: "Hey, man great to hear from you, glad you and the fam are doing well. That's great you are taking your son to SLC, should be a great time with him.
Just so you know, I made the decision to leave the church and am no longer a part of it."


I would be a little more specific. NO explanation would make it too easy for him to think you were lazy or wanted to sin. For example, you could say: "I no longer believe ____________". Fill in the blank with your biggest issue, and leave it at that. No big explanations or evidence. If he wants to know, he'll ask.

17 years or so ago, one on my husband's friends opened up and told him that he left the church because he just couldn't believe the B of M anymore. Something clicked and my husband realized he didn't believe it, either. Just hearing somebody say it brought on an epiphany. My husband had NEVER believed in the B of M, and he could finally admit it to himself.

His friend played a small, but important part in our exit. But in no way was the friend the REASON we left. We left because the church didn't make sense, and it wasn't bringing the answers, happiness or spirituality that it promised. His friend's comment was just the spark that made the light finally go on for my husband. (My journey out didn't start for a couple more years).

Sometimes telling someone you don't accept something gives them permission to question it, too. But I wouldn't push, or delve into all the issues. If someone is ready to question, they'll do it. And if the church is really working for them they simply are not going to question it.

If you want to share more, you could send a link to the Jeremy Rummel letter or the "Why they Leave" video, and give him the option to look deeper, only if he wants to.

As far as responsibility . . . where you have no power, you have no responsibility. You cannot make someone question, just as you can't make someone listen, OR make them join. If you could, I'm sure missionaries would have a lot more baptisms. :-) On your mission, you just happened to be the right guy at the right time for someone who felt like they needed the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 04:06PM by imaworkinonit.

That's got to be tough. I always think women have a raw deal with Mormonism, but that mission tortures more of the men. And the darn thing is coming around to haunt you. Lots of choices. You could completely play along. Make excuses not to meet at all. Meet and see if you can gently begin to enlighten him or... blast him with the truth and see what happens. In some ways you're guessing at the vital question--if the church were not true, would you want to know. I'm the big old chicken who has not even tried to talk truth to my TBM brothers. I say wimpy things like, "the church does not work for me. I know it works for some people." Of course that brings up "You lost your testimony." I didn't lose it. It died when I learned the truth. The only advice I have is to remember that unlike Mormon teachings, there is not only one "right" way to do things. Good luck.

That is an email to provoke mixed emotions. For whatever it's worth, here is my opinion as a convert.

It was because of the "strong testimony" of a stellar missionary, or perhaps he was just a pushy self-righteous douche bag, not sure. Anyway because of his influce It got over my doubts 25 years ago and got baptized. Over 20 years later I came to the concluion that the church is not what it claims to be and it is actually damaging to he human soul.

I stayed strong in the church for many years. If at some point I would have contacted that missionary and he would have told me he left because it was a lie, I think it would have at least made me think. I wouldn't have thought less of him - I know, I said douche bag but that's just to illustrate the type of missionary he was. Anyway, if he told me he left I would definitely wondered how such a strong member from SLC would leave the lds church. I wonder if that would have made me question the church. Regardles, I would have welcome him telling me why he decided to leave.

For the record, he is a BYU professor and as far as I know, still strong in the lds church.

Like blueorchid said there is something about being forthcoming that is good for the soul, but it is also good for those who are in. Maybe just be straight up with him. After that, it's his choice to continue talking to you, start investigating or whatever he chooses.

Good luck.

And I know how you feel, I wish I could take back all the lessons, testimonies and all that indoctrination I did to those young kids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 03:05PM by deconverted2010.

Yes, you introduced him to LDS, Inc., but he made the decision to join. He has made that decision every day for the last 15 years.

Lots of people are baptized and quit. He chose to stick it out. If you want to tell him your story, more power to you, but you are not responsible for his life choices.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2014 03:05PM by axeldc.

:-(. Keep us posted.....

Bruce, I sympathize. There are certainly worse things in life, but the feeling of knowing you intentionally taught someone in the past what you now know is some of the worst life advice ever, is a pretty dismal feeling.

No need for boors to keep replying over and over after being told how irrelevant the first reply was, but that's never stopped our particularly dense personal philosophy preacher before...

+1

winkwink

=)

I'd just go with your first approach, and tell him you are no longer associated with the LDS church. Unsolicited advice is rarely welcome, so don't go into why you left and why he should too. If he asks, then you can tell him, but otherwise that is a boundary that should be respected.

I agree. I'd just say that there are some issues you found about the church and you no longer believe. If he is interested, you can tell him what the issues are, otherwise leave it alone. Then just be his friend as before.

I have TBM friends and I think that it's mutually respectful to not cross a line that can jeopardize the friendship over a disagreement.

Only my two cents... for what it's worth.

the bottom line is this: although there is a lot of evidence against the truth and validity of tscc, we don't know it's false anymore than your friend knows it's true. faith in stuff you can't actually see and all that bulls**t. God is really mean.
Let it go.

I think I understand where you are at. I have a simular situation. But I will be honest, I don't feel bad for teaching him teh gospel. Because at the time, I fully believed it. I can't look back at something in the past and be upset because I believed it at the time.

I do though, wonder what he will think or how he will feel when he finds out I've left. Something that will happen, as we are Facebook friends. But just like with my Wife, family, and ward members. I can't hide who I am. I am not going to pretend to be something I am not. I figure one of three things will happen.

1. He will be upset or something, and unfriend me on FB and never talk to me again.
2. He will wonder why I left, but keep doing his thing in the church.
3. He will wonder why I left and ask me about it. And ask what changed my belief. If this happens, then we can talk at that time.

I won't be able to change how he reacts. He will deal with it the same way all family and friends have. In their own ways. So I'm not going to stress about it. Yes I brought the church to his door step. But it was his choice, and what happens after he hears that I have left will be his choice too.


Good Luck!

Tell him your out. Tell him why.

If it crushes him, then is his religion really a solid part of his structure?

Or is it a lie?

This is the approach I personally would take.

Maybe the church is all he has going in his life. Think twice before you pop his faith bubble. It will just upset him. Try to get an assessment of what kind of support he needs.

Depending on the circumstance, maybe you can tell him you have been meaning to find him to apologize for getting him sucked into the church. Tell him you didn't know any better at the time because you were also a victim.

Tell him that it is all a part of making us who we are and tell him you hope his journey through life is rewarding and rich. Wish him happiness whatever path he takes.

Let him know it is NOT an issue about you not being able to keep their standards. That is their knee jerk reason why people leave. Tell him you studied yourself out and outgrew it. The world is much bigger than the world of Mormonism.

Strangely enough, I got a hold of the e-mail address of the missionary who baptized me and sent him a similar sort of thank you letter. Ironically, shortly after that, I stumbled onto the truth and left the Church.

So don't ever think that there's no hope. You never know.

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strangely enough, I got a hold of the e-mail
> address of the missionary who baptized me and sent
> him a similar sort of thank you letter.
> Ironically, shortly after that, I stumbled onto
> the truth and left the Church.
>
> So don't ever think that there's no hope. You
> never know.

Did they ever write back? [maybe they were out & wanted to let you know, but couldn't]. Did you think about writing back and saying that you were out now? Perhaps they would be stunned, or congratulatory.

That's the thing about living a life. You learn new things as you go and then you make changes accordingly - hopefully.

When you were teaching him, you believed you were teaching something that was true. Your beliefs later took a turn, and you had to be true to yourself and make a change according to your conscience.

He made his own decision too, and has the ability to change his mind as well.

I think that your first choice response was absolutely spot on, personally I'd go with that one.

It tells him where you are with your beliefs and gives him to the chance to quiz you if he wants to.