I'm seeing a trend in this direction. Many people up to about age 50 or so look at anyone older as a resource to use for their convenience. They assume that anyone who is retired should devote their remaining years to serving anyone who is younger than them.

I think it's wonderful if older people have the health and energy to run charities for young families or volunteer in hospitals or animal shelters.

What bothers me is the strange idea that elderly people are selfish or worthless if they can't or choose not to give their lives away to help others.

What's worse is the idea that they should donate their healthcare resources to others who are "still contributing to society" or to underprivileged third world or disadvantaged young people in this country.

I've had to fill out health forms which ask pointed questions like "Do you feel that asking for care makes you a burden to loved ones and to society?" This question is connected to questions about saving or ending a life and "saving healthcare costs."

The answer? No. I am not a burden to anyone.

My husband played golf with a gentleman for nine years who told him that older people should not "waste" healthcare resources when so many young people could use them. He said if the US didn't use all of the resources, then certainly people in India and Africa could benefit.

DH was shocked since I had used my hard earned insurance for 9 surgeries to save my eyesight and for cancer care to save my life. This golfer had always seemed to like me, but he came as close as possible to saying my eyesight and my life were expendable.

Do some older people want to give up because of feeling they're a burden? Yes, it seems so. Do some people of all ages think they have a right to tell others "to die with dignity" meaning to donate their healthcare to the general population? Apparently so.

Do I think others have a right to impose these ideas on unwilling elder citizens? No.

It's like abortion. The decision shouldn't be foisted on others. An individual knows if their life feels worthwhile. They don't owe their energy and resources to young people any more than young people must devote their time to the elderly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2014 03:13PM by Cheryl.

I'm very sorry that happened to you! That guy was WAY out of line. My mother and her husband have been very healthy their whole lives and even today exercise daily. But they've reached a point where they've needed surgeries for things that pop up at their age -- especially since they've worked their whole lives!

I don't begrudge them a thing! They've earned it.

So, has the gentleman told you when his funeral will be?

madalice Wrote:
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> So, has the gentleman told you when his funeral
> will be?
**********************************************
Quite soon if I ever get ahold of him!

Reggie

I refuse to take personally any of the assumptions and negative nonsense spewed about the elderly and aging.
Other people's opinions are just that. An opinion. It does not have to have any impact on me at all.
I can discount all of the crazy ideas as it is about them, not me.
My life's choices and decisions are not anyone else's business.
I count myself greatly privileged to have lived this long, and hope to live much longer! Modern medicine is helping me do that and I am very grateful!
As a long time senior, I'll take every single thing I have earned by living this long.

I have a good laugh at the silly comments from the naysayers finding fault with aging. I certainly won't take them seriously.

My husband found that when he retired people thought he suddenly was available for service! Ahhh, not so fast. Now we have the fun part of teaching the younger generation that as seniors we'll set our own limits and not be bullied or cajoled into do what they want because they think they can get away with it.

Thrilled you are doing so well Cheryl! It's a hard battle sometimes but we get through it with flying colors! :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2014 03:51PM by SusieQ#1.

He must have been talking to this guy, an architect of Obamacare, not intending to get political, that's just who he is.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/09/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/

Anyone connected to **healthcare** has no business purporting this idea of dying young.

That guy's got a lot of crazy assumptions!

I was surprised to read that this guy, hoping to dye by age 75, was only 57! Just by his picture, I estimated that he was around 70. Is it just me, or is my age meter is off?

I thought the same thing, he looks much older than he is. I saw him in a video and he looked even older than the picture. I remember my dad saying it would be ok if it was his time to go, his family was raised, he had a good life. Then he had a minor heart attack and quickly changed his mind, he wasn't ready to leave this world quite yet and lived another happy, fairly healthy 15 or so years.

No....but it's nice to help out others...and I dont' feel the compulsion to go out and volunteer for every GD cause out there. I did plenty of volunteering before I retired.

Ron Burr

for proving someone deserves healthcare or respect from family or friends.

If someone can't or isn't inclined to volunteer, they still deserve to use their insurance and not be termed unworthy or useless.

I went into teaching as a second career. I have been an urban teacher for more than 16 years now. It is hard labor. I can't emphasize that enough. IT IS BLOODY HARD LABOR. There are days when I think that splitting rocks would be easier. I wanted to do some good in the world, and in my opinion, I have. Yet when my retirement comes, I am going to go off and enjoy myself without a second thought about it. And as far as I am concerned, I have earned every penny of my pension and health benefits.

I love to see my brother and his wife enjoying their retirement. They travel and read and pursue their hobbies. They worked hard and deserve to enjoy themselves. It is especially poignant for me because my dad died at the age of 63. He worked hard all of his life and never got to retire. My mom said that he wouldn't have known what to do with himself in retirement. But I think that he would have figured it out, just as my brother has.

Some elderly people like to volunteer. I salute those people. Some just want to rest and enjoy themselves. I think that is fine as well.

As for health care, I wanted more care for my mom toward the end of her life than she herself wanted. It is up to each person. There are times when the elderly are ready to go, but their families are not ready to let them go. But every person has the right to make that decision for themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2014 06:32PM by summer.

Exactly! Everyone gets to make any and all of those decisions for themselves.

I bet Jerry had something to say about that! What an idiot.

He's already found a new group who are glad to have him and don't want me dead or blind.

Susan I/S Wrote:
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> I bet Jerry had something to say about that! What
> an idiot.
****************************************
Prolly sumthin quite similar to what I said, huh?

You might have said what he wished he'd said.

that Jerry knows how to control his temper and he still has teeth. I am sure there are many groups that would like to play with him, he is a very good golfer :)

If we start to question worth based on usefulness, a lot of our society would fall apart.
What if one has a job that doesn't necessarily reflect what you think is a society contribution? Do they not deserve the insurance they work(ed) for?
And really, if we are to judge folks by their "worthiness"-in this case, their health status vs what they do with their life, are any of us better than the church who determines who is worthy to receive food and other assistance?

Not when there is a fighting chance. But at the end of life is it to help the senior citizen or the doctor?

Solyent green is people.

Sadly, The Elderly are not as revered in America, as they are in--well--just about any other country I have visited!

America invented teen-agers, and saw that as a huge selling demographic. No one thinks about who's money they teens are spending.

Senior citizens have EARNED their health insurance. The Baby-boomer generation had a work ethic. They shouldered their adult responsibilities. Many of them were raised by parents and/or grandparents who had lived through the depression. That was a sobering experience, but it taught job-appreciation, and frugality. I have a hard time going along with the excesses in the up-coming generation. I went to my son's fancy house to a lavish party, and all their friends' cars were brand new, giant, gas-guzzling SUV's or ORV's or whatever you call them, for transporting 8 people over 3 feet of snow. The city plows the roads here, and my son's friends average 2 kids and a dog. My son and his wife drive Mercedes-es. Two? Teens and young adults like "concerts"--at $200+ each, and it isn't even music. And the pro sports games are expensive, too, especially if they fly to San Diego, San Francisco, and Seattle to see them, and stay in a nice hotel, and dine in expensive restaurants. My daughter and her husband go to New York City once a year, and all of my adult kids take their children to Disneyland once, sometimes twice a year. I guess they think their kids will all get scholarships to universities, or take out student loans, or something. I remember the "good old days" when parents saved for their children's college education. Honestly, I don't know any parents who are doing that. I do know some grandparents, including myself, who are.

The old people are the ones who are carrying the Nation! That's right!

I had a horrible nephew, who will rot in Hell. He pushed both his parents to sign a "do not resuscitate" document. They both died fairly young, at 62 and 64, within months of each other, from different causes. Each time, when their insurance ran out, my nephew took them out of the hospital and into a hospice, where they could not get the care they needed. One could not breathed, and gasped and choked for days, and all they did was strap him down. As for me--give me the breathing machine, and painkillers for a few extra days. Consider those extra days in intensive care as extra days at Disneyland. This same nephew stole his sister's inheritance, and attempted to steal my inheritance from my single brother. I sued and won, but now I wish I'd had the creep put in jail.

People need to know who to trust, and often old people can't trust their own children.

I would have dropped that golf buddy like a hot potato. WTG!

Why do we always think we need to be "useful to others?" Who defines what "being useful" is? The Mormon cult has its own definitions of this, of course. Once we fail to be of use to the cult, we are shunned, completely, regardless of age.

The Mormon cult made three final hits on my very active, faithful, lifetime TBM parents:

1. Go on a Senior couple mission; in fact, go on thee or four!
2. Sell your house to the LDS, (Beneficial Life), and let them put you on a reverse mortgage, so you have more cash for senior missions.
3. Prevent money squabbles among your children, prevent them from having to pay huge inheritance taxes, and leave your money to the Mormon cult.
4. Remember BYU in your will. The attractive couple who advertised this on KBYU were "friends" of my parents in their ward. When my father was dying, they dropped in, unexpectedly, well-groomed and shiny and smiling. I kept coming into the room and saying that it was time for Dad's medicine, that Dad needed to rest, and my Mother would agree with me, and stand up--but they did not leave until my father had written a very large check to BYU. We were just grateful he didn't change his will. He was quite weak and ill. No respect! I finally got hold of my brother, who was Dad's trustee, and he cancelled the check! LOL! I was surprised, because my brother was very TBM.

I think the Mormons are the very worst, when it comes to disrespecting the experience, knowledge, and accomplishments of older people. Yet, they near-worship those weird old geezers, halfway to the crypt, and cover up when they become brain-dead.

I'm in my 60's. I'm lucky to have a a few darling little grandkids. My goal is to bond with them and show them how wonderful they are and can be. I'm their cheer leader come hell or high water. I never had that growing up. I want my grandkids to have that person in their life.

Other then that, I want them to reach for their dreams. I want them to know that their dreams are worth reaching for. I never once had anyone who gave me that hope. I did the best I could to instill that in my kids. I hope they pass that on to my grand babies. With all of that love and encouragement the world has to be a better place in the future. Funny thing, religion, especially mormonism has no place in the future love, encouragement, and security of my grandkids. Mormonism is poison to future generations.

I so agree that the Elderly are not held in much regard at all in America. Youth and beauty sit on top of the mountains of America.

When I became a widow, two of my children openly pushed me to return to the ward in my neighborhood so that I might stay involved in worthwhile activities, such as the wonderful charities, their words not mine, that the cult helped.

You know, I was hurt and I was insulted. Such talk said that they paid no attention to the fact that I did not want to be an active Mormon, and hell, had said so on many occasions. Did they not think I was capable of finding worthwile activities and ways to spend my time of my own choosing. Oh yes, and the other thing their talk did to me was make me feel that they themselves were trying to make sure that they were under no obligation to spend time with me.

Of all my children, these two TBM's through the years have not spent much time with me at all because I am a heathen and an apostate.

This is US-specific (and I hope not overly political):

How are you with spreadsheets? You can collect annual payments into Social Security, by age, and track each year-group's contributions and withdrawals. You'll find that, so far, the average person withdraws more while retired than they contribute prior to retirement.

It's a moral obligation for working people to ensure that persons of the elderly persuasion are not destitute. To this end, Americans have agreed upon a redistribution of wealth from the young to the old (despite the argument that retirees are simply withdrawing what they deposited while working; please refer to your calculations re the previous paragraph).

If retirees spend their time contributing to society, it's a net gain for everyone. If they don't, it's a loss.

Healthcare resources? If I remember correctly, over half of a person's healthcare expenses are incurred during the first and last month of their life. How many retirees do you know who have had $100,000+ operations? How many months do they gain from those operations? How many years would be gained from the same money spent on preventive health care for younger people? Should we prioritize?

Once again, I hope this isn't political. To me, it's money vs morality vs ethics.

I think we know those facts. But the conclusion? Should people refuse care when they can no longer "be productive?" Should others have a right to tell them to go blind because cornea transplant surgery is more costly than they are worth since they no longer need their eyes to "produce a product for society?"

Is it more fair to start charging older people more because they are living longer than was anticipated when the deals were originally negotiated? I am paying hundreds of dollars a month for prescriptions that used to cost me $5.00 each. Perhaps this policy should be extended to all care. I could be charged for the full cost of care and have all insurance revoked. Then no one would have to be concerned that my care was costing them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2014 09:04AM by Cheryl.

I really don't buy the argument that we take out more than we put in. If the same money that we contributed over a lifetime were invested in the stock market, many or most of us would be millionaires. I've been putting money into the SS system for more than 40 years now -- it will be 50+ when I retire. How much growth in our economy does that represent? Even the US government pays interest on savings bonds. But Social Security is more than a retirement savings account. It is also meant to help us if we are disabled.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2014 11:23AM by summer.

Depends on who you are, what benefits you need to avail yourself of, and whether your household contributed from one salary or two.

IOW, some people will receive more than they contributed (think about your salary 40 years ago -- the percentage of your contribution was probably the same as it is now, but the actual dollars is way less), but some people will not.

Cite:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/

Where is this coming from and what trend are you seeing, exactly? I read your OP and thought... wtf is she talking about?

My opinion is, by the time a person gets to be a senior citizen they have earned the right to do whatever the fuck they want and that includes be useful to younger people as well as sitting around on the front porch shaking their fists at interlopers who dare walk down the street.

Seriously. If anything, I think younger people should be thinking about how they can be of service to older people.

Also ExMoBandB's post is just sad, laden with sour grapes and judgey judgment. Especially that line about "concerts." Really?

Bottom line, I think if you worry about what other people think you "deserve," you're in for a hard time. I hate that word, deserve, because it's so subjective. What I think I deserve and what you think I deserve are two totally different animals. So, Cheryl, if some asshole thinks you didn't "deserve" your eye surgery, he can just fuck right off. Don't worry about that guy.

I'm 62 and have worked over 25 years (still working). My hubby and I recently became first time grandparents and it is a game changer. We look at this little baby and think the world just started over for us. We're lucky that our three children live within 20 miles of us, and they seem to like being around us so we are looking forward to many years watching and being there for this grandchild. I'm looking forward to retirement when I'm able to come and go as I please and enjoy whatever benefits I've earned.

Good for Jerry finding other golfing buddies!

strange idea that elderly people are selfish or worthless

I am neither selfish nor worthless. I am 78 years young and I still have my physical and mental health. I feel that I have earned the right to be selective about the things that I do or do not.

I agree with Cheryl.

Forceable interference groups aka churches that want to guilt trip elderly people out of their retirement years should be ashamed of those actions.

As always in my life I do what I can to help out but refuse to be pushed into anything that I don't want to do

SO THERE!