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Posted by: Godzilla ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 10:27AM

It took me a friend's comment about the Mountain Meadows Masscre and then later when I watched the history of Mark Hofmann on TV to sparkle the doubt that took me later to investigate and accept how wrong I was...

I am trying to understand, now that those and several other issues are coming to public view, like the rock in a hat or the BoA, the horrible interview where Holland lies and looses it in camera or the essays that leave more questions than answers, so I am trying to understand how members are taking it all and still not opening their eyes or not being open to consider that their church is just a big lie...

To me it is like they are being stubborn or just hide their heads in the sand... I just don't get it. Is it that they are afraid? or maybe that TSCC is so deep in their culture or in their family that they can't conceive it as fake?

I can understand those who work for the cult, because of it they are living. But the rest of the members? those who are continually exploited of their time, money and resources? how are they taking it and how comes they don't open their eyes? Come on! all is right there in front of them... almost no need to investigate just to think is enough to find out all is a big scam.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 10:32AM

My family is hiding their heads in the sand. They are too afraid to put it out.

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Posted by: Losing her ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 11:56AM

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" - Upton Sinclair

Change salary to salvation.

In order to open the TBM mind enough to understand their salvation is not really at stake, they need to open their mind enough to realize it isn't true. In order to open their mind enough to realize it isn't true, they have to open their mind enought to realize their salvation is not at stake.

Once the feedback loop is established, it is difficult to break. I've been working on DW with dismal success for a year.
All I've managed to do in that time is realize just how bad LDS, Inc is for its members, and humanity as a charity, along with how I don't fully know how to relate to someone so easily hoodwinked. :(

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Posted by: exodus ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 12:13PM

So far the inoculation approach seems to be working. I've heard cheerful TBMs post about FAIR, temple garments, doubting doubts, etc.

I'm still waiting for the Nauvoo essay on JS's polygamy and polyandry to see the effect from that. I may be waiting for a very long time.

I actually think that things will be problematic when other people - nonmembers start hearing and asking about these things. It may be overwhelming peer pressure for TBMs to see the light. Let's get an A-list JS movie out there!!

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Posted by: icedtea ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 12:50PM

Most Mormons are completely unaware that anything is happening. They live in a bubble and want to stay there. If by accident they hear or see something, they carefully filter it through their mental sieve and categorize it as: persecution, anti-Mormon lies, or proof that Satan is working extra hard in the very last days (or all three). If confronted with quotes from historical sources, they won't even bother to read; they'll just insist it was taken out of context or misquoted because they know the church is twoo because of their warm fuzzy feelings.

The inoculation is working well, too. If you ask a TBM about any of the issues that have gotten media attention recently, they'll just cheerfully say, "Oh, the Brethren have already addressed that."

You can throw all the logic, evidence, critical thinking, and facts in the world at these people and it will never make a dent in their tinfoil helmets. They don't know, and they generally just don't care because they've already been told what to think -- and that is good enough.

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 12:53PM

True Believer Syndrome:

In his book The Psychic Mafia, Keene told of his partner, a psychic medium named "Raoul" in the book. Some in their congregation still believed that Raoul was genuine even after he openly admitted that he was a fake. Keene wrote "I knew how easy it was to make people believe a lie, but I didn't expect the same people, confronted with the lie, would choose it over the truth. ... No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie."[1][5]

Carlos

According to The Skeptic's Dictionary, an example of this syndrome is evidenced by an event in 1988 when James Randi, at the request of an Australian news program, coached stage performer José Alvarez to pretend he was channelling a two-thousand-year-old spirit named "Carlos". Even after it was revealed to be a fictional character created by Randi and Alvarez, many people continued to believe that "Carlos" was real.[4] Randi commented: "no amount of evidence, no matter how good it is or how much there is of it, is ever going to convince the true believer to the contrary."[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 01:25PM

My TBM hasn't watched anything but faith-promoting stuff. She is aware that TSCC has some issues. Her reaction is that True Believers know TSCC is true because they're righteous and don't question.

She was one of the first to watch Meet the Mormons, her desktop is set to the Morg's newsroom site, last night she was watching faith-promoting Morg videos, she routinely underlines GC talks and watches talks from the web...She's too busy engaging in spiritual exercises to have time to examine anything in conflict with all the wonderful, uplifting resources out there.

If only she could figure out what to do with her apostate husband? If only he'd be righteous like her. Oh well, best not to dwell on that, Elder a Packard is speaking...

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 01:29PM

What about GBH admitting live on nationwide TV that he got his power from men not God

Q. Do you get your power from God?

His A. I get my power from the men and women that sustain me.

END OF STORY.

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Posted by: masonfree ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 02:03PM

If anything makes you confused about the church or its claims you automatically assume the adversary has something to do with it if you're raised LDS similar to how I was.

Sadly, many things about the church and life in general are confusing. Hearing something unflattering, no matter how true it is, about your sometimes lifelong faith that you've never heard before can feel confusing. Rather than confront this thing and prove or disprove it I was essentially taught to avoid the issue, chasing it away with church materials that deliver church-approved emotions.

I think a very valid question for almost anyone leaving the Mormon Church who was involved for very long is to ask "what am I like on my own, not just chasing away the adversary and inviting the spirit to prevent me from ever facing the reality of all my more difficult emotions and complicated thoughts?"

I hope I'm adequately compassionate for those who are initially dealing with this because the beginning of my end in the church certainly faced a hearty portion of such problems.

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