Joseph Smith claimed his power and authority was conferred upon him and close associates by visitations from powerful luminaries like, for instance, God the Father, Jesus Christ, Moroni, John the Baptist, Peter, James, John, Elijah, etc. (Impressive list, you gotta admit ...)
We ex-mos figured out those absurd stories are ... absurd stories.
Nonetheless, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and today's Mormon Church Leadership command significant power and authority over the Church and its membership. So much Power that they command Celebrity Status in the Mormon culture.
It's the Mormons' own version of Roman Catholic apostolic succession. It goes beyond priesthood pedigree to some basic assumptions about collective authority:
Jesus chooses people to work for him. (why?) They have as mush authority as him. (dubious) Each prophet has as much authority as the one before him. (dubious) Prophet chooses apostles, apostles choose senior surviving apostle as next prophet. (circular)
I suppose there could be some collective wisdom at work, or some sort of unwritten tradition that gets handed down and confers power of a sort. But it's hard to see why that would include any supernatural power or spiritual gifts.
1) Years of successful indoctrination on the gullible dupes. (That used to be me.)
2) The perfection of HeartSell® in their messaging.
3) The sanitization of anything damaging to the 'one-true-church' claim.
4) And the repeated hype that they are true prophets, seers and revelators. The Q15 don't testify anymore about their apostolic office, or the one-true-church claim. But, they love it when all the Morgbots repeat the drivel over and over at Fast and Testimony Meetings. What the heck must they be thinking when they are sustained in general conference sitting in their opulent big red puffy chairs as the camera zooms in on their faces?
Speed-reading, I read "opulent big red puffy faces."
Even though they are ugly and old, they have it down. The holier-than-thou demeanor, the sonorous voice with the drop at the end of each sentence, that implies: "Thus saith the LORRDD." Some can cry on cue. They wear a white shirt and a hand-tailored suit, carefully crafted to hang well on stooped shoulders. PKP and my Apostle relative wore a suit at Sunday dinner. Mormon minions would spot my important relative out in public, and approach him for autographs! He drove a 9-passenger limo, which he liked to drive himself. We felt important riding in that. My close relative was a celebrity on National TV!
With him, it was the money, family heritage, and speaking ability. The underwear and having the Second Anointing must give them a sense of power. Even if it is all in their own mind, it is still power.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 01:58AM by forestpal.
They're rarely, if ever, in a position where they have to defend their position. Their audiences are screened and pre-determined and prepped for appropriate behavior, with gads of security to ensure it stays the way they want it.
I'd like to see them in a debate sometime... or in a public forum with critics asking questions. Then that air would escape from their demeanors.
And there's some of that "emperor's new clothes thing" happening, too.
I have seen Boyd K. Packer in a small priesthood meeting (200 people) and NO ONE would have challenged anything he said. He had a stake president running a microphone around and another stake clown writing shit on a white board. He stood at the podium and controlled the questions and gave the answers.
When he came in the room we stood. When he left the room we stood.
He didn't seem very tall and was thick in stature. No natural charisma or kindness. He made you laugh simply by saying something out of character which made you lighten up and relax.
If that is God's representative on earth I'm fucking Bill Gates.
Their power comes from the evil they do which explains why the CULT is still around in spite of overwhelming evidence that it s nothing but a lies.
"or in a public forum with critics asking questions." - it is funny you should bring this to light. Yesterday evening the Shambhala Mountain Center here in Colorado finished up their 6 day Awake in the World Conference. The last night (which was yesterday evening), they had a panel of several religions representatives: Muslim, Hindu, Protestant, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish. They all offered their beliefs about spiritualism along's one's life journey etc. It was so great to hear the discussion. I found out today that a representative from the CULT was invited and they declined. This was in the early planning stages several months ago. There were a few possible dates thrown out for consideration. Each and every date was turned down by the CULT. The planners of this event were obviously trying to get a date/time when all of these religious representatives could be on the panel together to experience the give and take. IT WAS EXTREMELY INTERESTING AND MOVING IN MANY WAYS.
The CULT kept saying they couldn't come. Then it was offered that they could participate by Skype. Still no go. Trust me there is no way that they could have handled even the first question. There is NO SUBSTANCE to the CULT beliefs. Even when they get some, the change them when god changed his mind again and again. I think they were scared to come because they know what a joke they are. They get mad when people don't take seriously but then they offer no reason why anyone should take them seriously.
The source of the CULT's power is EVIL AND MONEY.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 02:42AM by verilyverily.
They are like the Great and Powerful Oz. They hide behind the curtain in their Castle in Temple Square and never show themselves. They only have any "power" because the peasants give it to them, and they aren't going to tell them it's all an illusion.
"They only have any 'power' because the peasants give it to them ..."
Lots of good comments on this thread, but IMO scarecrowfromoz hit the NAIL squarely on the HEAD. That's precisely what I was thinking when I wrote the OP. (I was waiting for some very [obviously] smart poster to agree with me. ;-)
What if NOBODY showed up for General Conference and the seats were completely empty? How much Power would the old dinosaur Spiritual Dwarfs possess then?
As we all know, Mormons are duped into "voluntarily" (if you can call b.i.c. [brainwashed into compliance] voluntary) into handing over their own personal power (and money) to The Brethren, including the Steering Wheel for their lives.
What if the membership were to figure out that ALL of the Power they feel controlling their own Lives and Fortunes comes directly from ... drum roll ... the Members themselves? And that they are free to RECLAIM their own Lives and Fortunes at any time ... if they wake themselves up to what they have allowed to be done to them?
Pretending to have god at the head of the church gives them an excuse for the ultimate authoritarian regime. If there are 3 deacons in the ward, one of them MUST be the president over the rest. Everybody must be either bossed around or be the boss. The acceptance of authority and hierarchy is what gives them their power.
Hey, Invisible, You NAILED it! Key word "acceptance" ...
"The acceptance of authority and hierarchy is what gives them their power."
Without the "acceptance" of the Sheeple, the hierarchy has no power whatsoever.
There are plenty of people in looney bins who even claim to BE Jesus Christ. Way more impressive than just claiming to have a HOT LINE TO JESUS. Nobody "accepts" these crazies as really being JESUS, so they are in a looney bin instead of commanding a world wide church.
Why don't the Sheeple send the Big15 to the looney bin for claiming to have an exclusive HOT LINE TO JESUS ... but for some reason they NEVER USE IT!
The Church convenes a General Conference every six months. And 15 people have a HOT LINE TO JESUS ... and yet Jesus NEVER has any message for his chosen sheeple.
Call IT! There's something wrong with the HOT LINES!
"Without the acceptance of the Sheeple, the hierarchy has no power whatsoever."
That's it, right there. If you get outside of Mormon territory and talk to somebody who knows little or nothing about the church, just try to say something about "The Prophet himself, even Thomas S. Monson," and see what kind of a look you get in response.
They won't have heard of TSM, and won't buy for a heartbeat that he is a prophet.
Yep - little tin men marching around in their own little kingdom, but outside of it, THEY ARE NOBODY!!
Fear disguised as admiration of the Lord's Annointed. Fear of social ostracism. Fear of losing family both here and eternity. Fear disguised as love, hope and charity.
Paul said that the Lord did not give us the spirit of fear. Fear is the opposite of Hope.
The greatest source of GA's power is the willing subservience of its members. It is also the most dangerous. TBM's are sheep...I used to be one. The GA 15 foster that apostle hero worship as well. I kick myself for ever listening and following those charlatans. Never again...
I would even say willing subservience is the ONLY source of GA power.
Without the subservience, the GAs are no more powerful than the dudes in the Looney Bin who think they are Jesus Christ.
Actually, GAs are far WORSE than the Looney Bin saviors - who really DO believe sincerely they are Jesus Christ. GAs full well KNOW they don't have any more special access to Jesus than a fence post.
(And at least the Looney Bin saviors actually EXIST! Which is way more than many of us think the Real Jesus can claim - that is, to EXIST.)
Only in mormonism could someone like BKP be important.
I went to BYU education week one time. Imagine my disappointment when I learned that BKP was the GA they chose as the main speaker. Even when I was TBM I couldn't stand him. I knew that there wasn't going to be anything of inspiration said that evening. All of the women stayed and politely listened to him. I could feel the disappointment in the crowd though. I would have much rather went to dinner at a nice place than sat through that yawn fest. He's not only boring, he's an ass.
Although I've been out for more than 10 years,I still remember the subtle or harmless techniques employed by church leaders that some of you may or may not recognize-like having the ward exec.secy put his hand on your shoulder and whisper "brother Harris,the bishop needs to speak with you after sacrament meeting" so I spend the next hour wondering what its going to be about(like a kid being told to go to the principal's office) and it would end up being some bulls*it that he could've had anyone ask me-I had been trained from a young age to be submissive to priesthood authority-so glad I'm out now.