"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.


One of the benefits of owning a cow is to breed it for more cows. Calves bring in good money, and are great bartering material. Enter Helen. Joseph promises Heber eternal salvation, and even more importantly a place at the head of the church table. The price for such a lofty honor requires only the prophets access to his daughter. Such a good bargain, and he isn't really losing this particular asset, just letting it be used for his own purposes.

Unknown to Helen Mar, Heber and Joseph had already discussed the prospect of Helen Mar becoming one of Joseph’s wives. Heber now sought her agreement. Helen recalls, “Having a great desire to be connected with the Prophet Joseph, he offered me to him; this I afterwards learned from the Prophet’s own mouth. My father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the alter”

http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/26-HelenMarKimball.htm

Surely Heber, your daughter must have had more value than just an animal?

"I say to those who are elected to go on missions, remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that. Amen" - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256.

Speaking to a group of departing missionaries... "Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30.

Helen sacrificed for her family so that Spencer Wooley Kimball could come to earth and free all de black peepuls.

I have always wondered who he is calling uglier, either the new would-be brides or his first-wife.

Hearing the words truly spoken by one of those chosen as a prophet , seer and revelator puts the true perspective on the whole polygamy lifestyle out there for us to read today. They were a bunch of lechers out for all the sex they could get without regard for the women involved. At least this is how it seems to me from reading Bro. Kimball's instructions to those newly departing missionaries.

Isn't the thought of giving your daughter to a polygamous man to have a connection whether it be eternal, political, financially motivating no different than European Royalty or Middle Eastern countries that follow polygamous teachings?

Using your child as a barter chip to get something you want. That idea has been around a long time.

Yes, but no less ugly, especially from a man who claimed to speak regularly with Jesus. Says alot about this man's "Jesus" to me who cares little about the desires of the wimmen folk who are only here to raise up seed unto the Lard.

So human trafficking is not new.

Doesn't it bear comment when you find it has morphed into a divine commandment without which an individual cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom.

Once we step out of the bubble, it is shocking that we accepted this form of human degradation as not only acceptable, but required.

At least that's how I feel.



Kathleen Waters

Ya, and it's disgusting. It was disgusting then, now and every other time in between. Most of those in the U.S. had evolved beyond that particular barbarity and abuse in the 1800s. One would think that those in the U.S. in 2014 should be able to see the disgusting nature of these kind of actions, but not the mormons! We just have to understand that it was a different time, they say. I thought god was the same yesterday, today and forever. If so, his mouthpieces don't need to be perfect but do need to be the leaders against this kind of abuse and every other BEFORE they are dragged kicking and screaming. They certainly should not be the ones starting and defending it.

Mormons always point to the bible to say, "see Abraham, David, etc. were polygamists." Yes, but they were not commanded by god to do it, nor did they teach it as doctrine. Plus, it always seemed to get them into trouble. TSCC is always going in the wrong direction, backwards.

Heber didn't start out this way. (I think I read this in Todd Compton's book.)

When The Horndog first approached him about marrying Helen Mar, both Heber and his wife (Vilate?) were appalled and said an emphatic "NO". And of course, Helen was too young to have an opinion that counted for anything, but she was their child and they loved her and wanted the best for her. (But Helen didn't want anything to do with Joe either.)

Joe wore them down with his rhetoric about how the entire family would be cast into eternal darkness if they didn't submit to him, and whatever other twaddle he was peddling at the time, and he wore them down. If I remember correctly, they didn't sleep for two or three days; they stayed up and talked and prayed. And of course, anybody who is sleep-deprived and under this kind of stress is not in the best position to make important decisions.

They truly bought the hogwash he was hawking, so out of fear for themselves and their family, they very reluctantly handed Helen Mar over. This must have broken the back of Heber's resistance, because after that, he went on to make the infamous statements about "taking another wife doesn't amount to anything more than buying another cow" or whatever.

The guy did NOT start out that way. From everything I recall, he was a decent man, happily and monogamously married to Vilate. If his path had not crossed the exceedingly toxic one of JS, I think he would have lived out his days as a normal man.

Ah....its not that Helen was too young to have an opinion, she was female so would never have an opinion worth considering.

The Moron church is based upon gender discrimination where wimmen do not and will never have an opinion. Hmmmm, they ex'ed Kate Kelly, but not John Dehlin? Not surprising given TSCC's history.

mormon royalty. They were so proud to restore old Heber's Nauvoo home. Nothing to be proud of. He was a trashy low life who was willing to give up his daughter and wife for old Joe's pleasure.

Except, isn't it when the chips are down and life gets difficult, when we are most tested and are struggling, that our true character reveals itself?

It is very easy to be good when only good things come our way and we are safe and comfortable, and others support us in everything we do. It is hard to be good when others confront us or cross us or when we disagree with the majority of those around us, who express significant differences in ways of thinking.

If Joseph asked for your daughter and she did not wish to go, if your conscience had you up at night praying for the strength to say yes to this much older man wanting to marry your 14 year old---wouldn't this be the exact time to stand tall, speak out and disagree?

Sounds like they weighed their options, came up with more pros than cons without really thinking of Helen as much as themselves, talked themselves into handing her over, then later dove into the same muddy waters head first. Which was most likely much easier on them, than defying or saying no to Joseph, or going against the grain.

2 days they struggled with this? That's all? 2 seconds is what it would take me. Then on foot or on horseback or by wagon, off we'd ALL go. That is who and what kind of person, what kind of a mother I am. I've met people like Joseph Smith. I guess I am just not so easily fooled.

Protecting your child is one thing that shouldn't ever be a "what if" or "if this happened" or "but he said" or "he told me God said it" kind of thing. Heber did what he did for himself. He bartered his daughter away for high position and Joseph's favor; and stemming from that, money and power, material things which glorified himself and his wife.

That is not a good man. In a Mormon's book, maybe, but certainly not in mine.

I think I understand the plot of Johnny Lingo now...