"Chat with the Missionaries" at www.mormon.org is telling people that "the Church never taught that black people were cursed" then sending inquirers to read "Race and Priesthood" at LDS.org

That's right folks...the Church has SUCCESSFULLY rewritten its own history!

If they did, they wouldn't be on missions.

Liars.

I was taught in institute at SUU that blacks were not as valiant in the pre-existence and that's why they were born black.

I was, as well -- at SUU.

"The Church and the Negro" by John L. Lund explains the issue quite nicely. Prophets and leaders taught from the pulpit that blacks were born into a Cain-cursed lineage because they were less-valiant in the pre-mortal existence -- and it says a lot of other ridiculous, unflattering things about them too, as doctrine.
Right up until 1978, Cain,the curse, and the PME were official doctrine. There's plenty of evidence right out of the mouths of prophets that it was so.

Haha! I asked them for myself. The first person handed the chat over to someone else who said,

"We don't know. What we know is God is not respector of persons."

I know he isn't. That's why I left TSCC. I knew God wouldn't hate on someone for the skin that God gave that person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 01:24PM by oldspeak.

2 legs bad ....4 legs good

but later they were able to convince the sheep that,

4 legs good but 2 legs better.

There's nothing new under the sun. If these idiots had ever bothered to read Animal Farm they'd know how predictable and stupid they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 01:30PM by copolt.

I'm old and I grew up in a small farming community West of Salt Lake City. I was taught in the LDS church that my great grandfather helped to build that the Negro race and to a lesser degree the Lamanites, who were identified as the Indians, bore the curse of Cain. Now maybe those farmers were teaching false doctrine, but the idea had to come from somewhere. There was considerable oversight from the GAs at that time. Members could request a meeting with one of the GAs, or write a letter directly to the Apostle of their choice. We also had an Apostle in attendance for Stake Conference at least once a year. Surely correct principles could have been conveyed to the local leadership by some means.

Why can't they just admit that they taught something they regret having taught and they aren't going to do it again.

They teach of repentance, but refuse to take the first step themselves.

In my family both growing up and in raising my own children, children were punished for doing wrong, but if the child lied about doing wrong, the punishment was increased. I believe that is a pretty standard practice in most Mormon homes. Why then do Mormons let there church get away with lying?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 02:20PM by releve.

In the 60s I was told the Blacks came from the mating of Cain and a Gorilla. No I'm not kidding.

...gorillas existed in western Missouri 6000 years ago. :-)

I was raised in the Netherlands and was a member from 1978 till 1997.

And I was taught that blacks were born black because they were less valliant in the pre-existance.

So it wasn't just those farm boys that got it wrong..

"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not become enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them." 2 Nephi 5:21

They still teach it. They can't not do so, because - if you pardon the expression - it is in black and white in the 'Most Correct Book' of scripture.

The sure sign of liars is that they can't keep their stories straight.

Mormonism is its own worst enemy. All you have to do is hold the church to its own words.

Their "memory hole" works more like a funnel, it just makes their lies more obvious.

I was taught the serpent in the garden of Eden was a black penis nailing eve.

This was in seminary in the early 80s

"I was taught the serpent in the garden of Eden was a black penis nailing eve."

Was it a random, unembodied black penis, or was it attached to something? :-)

I was taught back in 2006 that Negroes are the Less Valiants from the pre existence and marked with a dark skin accordingly by two white American kids/missionaries. They didn't say it was folklore either.

The Temple/priesthood ban (restriction) was some kind of consequence for that less valiancy.

One of the older ward members got me a Joseph Fielding Smith book to read from the ward library and it explained all this.

I remember that a 'greenie' missionary was visibly shaken by it all when I discussed it with his senior companion. Obviously he hadn't heard it before himself.

And now we have another reason for the Meetinghouse library resource center CLEANSING that is tossing all old LDS magazines and unapproved books in the trash (older than 2004). The purge is to be completed by Dec. 31, 2014. This cult must eliminate access to the damaging old truths of Moism to protect the rising generation from "learning the truth."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 03:57PM by jiminycricket.

I've already resigned my church membership. But someone who is still a member needs to publicly challenge the church, claiming that blacks were considered fence sitters in the pre-existance and that this was docterine, not any kind of urban legend or unofficial church teaching that was not supported by the bretheren. Then when the person is excommunicated for saying this, they can use themselves as an example of what happens when you teach docterines that are not supported by the church. Then the real question arises: Why has no one ever been excommunicated for teaching that the whole negro race was less valient in the pre-existance? They would have to start with Brigham Young. I wonder if a person can be excommunicated for the dead by proxy.

The hell they didn't. I remember being told not to date a black and especially not marry one and mix the blood of Cain. A kid doesn't forget something like that, and the general membership didn't make it up.

Here's a good source of references to teaching of LDS on blacks.

http://www.christiandefense.org/mor_black.htm

Boy, our Bro. Brigham was really against the race mixing. Remember he taught from the pulpit that the blacks were the spawn of Cain and any mixed couple deserved to be beheaded and their blood spilled upon the ground as well as their children should likewise suffer as well. Looks like more than just withholding the priesthood was taught.

If Brigham Young were alive today, he would probably be hieing off to join up with ISIL/ISIS so he could subjugate and rape women and behead anyone who didn't believe HIS version of worthiness (religious or racial). The hatred and disdain for those viewed as "lesser" is the same.

In the 1970s I objected to the Mormon doctrine concerning the curse of Cain. My father tried to set me right by presenting me with a small pink hardbound book titled "Mormonism and the Negro." It was written by two Mormon thinkers, John J. Stewart and William E. Berrett, and includes material written by David O. McKay, Mormon president and prophet of God.

Quotes from the book:

Note, also, that part of Cain's curse was to have as his posterity those spirits unable to bear the priesthood in this life.

Briefly, the LDS policy on Negroes is this: Negroes and other people with Negroid blood can become members of the church...but they cannot be ordained to the priesthood, nor are they eligible for marriage in the LDS temple; Negroes and non-Negroes should not intermarry.

Proclaim that it is a correct and reasonable doctrine, that it is tenable, that we have no reason either to apologize for it nor evade questions about it. We must then explain the reasons for it, and show that it is consistent with the rest of LDS doctrine.

...the seed of Cain was perpetuated through one of Noah's sons, Ham and his wife, Egyptus, apparently a Negress, and that Ham and his descendants were denied the right to hold the priest hood. (from the Book of Abraham)

President Smith said, "No other church offers the Negro so much."

David O McKay is quoted: Sometime in God's eternal plan, the Negro will be given the right to hold the priesthood.

From the forward to the book: The writers have great respect for the Negroid people, many of whom are counted among their friends, and in whose welfare they are deeply concerned.

(Copyright 1960, 1973)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 04:32PM by donbagley.

This teaching survived the rewrite of Mormon Doctrine and made it into the 2nd edition.

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 109:

"As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed and told that 'the earth' would not thereafter yield him its abundance as previously. In addition he became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan. The Lord placed on Cain a mark of a dark skin, and he became the ancestor of the black race."

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote the same thing in The Way to Perfection, although he later lied about it.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1324407

They can try to disavow it all they like. There are too many examples for it to be completely wiped from memory.

Well, that would explain why they never had to lift any type of a ban on Blacks holding the priesthood. So now I'm confused as to the meaning of the 1978 declaration in the D&C...

2 Nephi 5:21 is pretty hard to get around.

Now, though it's been AGES since I was in church, I seem to recall that when WE were taught that the blacks were "fence sitters" in the war in heaven, that it was believed to be true, but was not official doctrine. That would have been early 70's.

It may have morphed into being doctrine after that. Or perhaps living in Texas we did not get the full force of some doctrines. And the fact that there were probably more blacks in Dallas than in the entire state of Utah, perhaps people weren't too quick to adopt that idea as gospel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2014 07:08PM by seekyr.

That statement is an outright lie. We were taught that both Black people and Lamanites were cursed with a dark skin. That someone would deny that from TSCC is all you need to know about their character.

I would really like to see them cover that up. Talk about spin.

(From my post about a year ago)

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1101842,1101842#msg-1101842.

I was once told that the pre existence had Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial sections which we lived in.

White people came from Celestial Quarters.
Black people from Telestial.

And "others" came from Terrestrial...

Only one other person I have ever met had heard anything like this.

Yes, this also. It's great how everything ties in together.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1340273

Three degrees of the pre-existence.

I was taught about the curse since 1953.

When I was a teenager in the 60's I thought i'd have a bit of fun and put it to the test. I told my parents that a black guy had asked me out. He wanted to go to the local DQ and have some icecream. That was it.

They came completely unglued. After that, I knew for sure how my parents thought and felt about that. The funny part is, I'd never known or even met a black guy in my life. I was 28 before I knew a black person.