The idea of peaceful demonstration too good to be true.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-decision-grand-jury-decides-not-to-charge-police-officer-darren-wilson-in-michael-brown/

I hate to be cynical, but how long would they have shown a peaceful protest in the news? How many more black lives have to be lost before we as a nation address the deep inequities in our society, and especially in our so-called justice system?

nailamindi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many more black lives have to be lost before we as a
> nation address the deep inequities in our society,
> and especially in our so-called justice system?

Yes...and this is intensely personal to me.

I lived through the anti-Vietnam protests (in East Los Angeles), which turned into a chicano riot (for reasons similar to Ferguson...during which Ruben Salazar, a highly respected news journalist, was killed by an LA Country Sheriff's Deputy)...

...and I lived through the Watts Riots---which were VERY personal to me. Although Watts is a bit further south than my first neighborhood in "South Central" L.A. (more or less), my first real home---now demolished, but which I remember so clearly---was on Santa Barbara Avenue (now: Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd), near Western. My maternal grandparents lived nearby, on 39th Street (also near Western)---and the site of their home, which I also remember incredibly clearly, is now Martin Luther King Jr. Park. I think at least once a week of how different my life would have been if I had grown up in my original neighborhood, and my high school had been something like Jefferson instead of Canoga (Canoga Park High School) in the far western San Fernando Valley.

We went to the annual LA TIMES Festival of Books, on the USC campus, a few months ago...and after it was over, before we started west (to home), I drove the short distance to the place where I had first lived, and where my maternal grandparents had lived. That neighborhood is still a part of me...and right now, in the twenty-first century, it "looks" a lot like Ferguson does. (My family was the epitome of white flight...which is not a great thing to have to acknowledge, but it is true. When the first trickle of African-Americans began moving into that part of L.A., my entire family---both sides---"flew" as fast as they possibly could to the all-white (by law at that time---this did not include Hispanics) western San Fernando Valley, but that central/"South Central"/ Western/39th Street/MLK Blvd. neighborhood is still vividly remembered by me...I still care about it...and I still feel very protective of it. It still "feels" like MY neighborhood.

In many ways it looks a great deal like Ferguson, Missouri, does today...and it has many of the same problems (including, in our case, with LAPD and the LA County Sheriff's Department)...and I care.

I really, really CARE.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 01:51AM by tevai.

All the really, really strong LDS communities in my metroplex are in the cities that grew out of white flight.
I'll just say the city. As soon as more hispanics and blacks were moving into north dallas, it seemed like all the white mormon families moved 30-45 minutes away to frisco and little elm. Their jobs stayed in downtown dallas but they say wanted to move to the better schools, then they wanted to move for the better wards.

What, you think the media hyped this up for ratings? Well, if so, the media was amply rewarded with a prime time, nightfall reading of the decision not to indict.

What deep injustices in our country? You mean how some blacks get free food and lodging and medical care, and repay white society by rapes, beatings, and daily terrorism of white students in predominantly black schools? You mean how blacks can get into schools they are not qualified for? Of how they can get government loans for businesses that other minorities, such as Asians, cannot get???

Obviously, YOU'VE never lived among ghetto blacks. I have. I suggest you read WHITE GIRL BLEED A LOT. Get the book. It will (hopefully) open your eyes.

Blacks are only beaten or shot by police when THEY FIGHT THEM. 99.99.99% of white cops do not shoot you or beat you "if" you don't fight them. THAT is why Micharel Brown was shot, not because he was black.

Awful analysis. Check yourself.

wow. You can take the person out of mormonism but you can't take mormonism out of a person.

How long do we as a nation have to put up with people who don't value education and play the victim card when they violate the law?

The way out of this is simple. Teach your kids that education and not crime is the only path to success. Teach them to work for something they want. Don't teach them that the deck is stacked against them and the only way out of their dilemna is the government.

Whites can't pull black culture out of the mess it is in. Only blacks can. But, the last time I checked, they don't have any leaders willing to say what needs to be said.

It is a culture problem, not a skin color problem.

We don't have a justice system.

+1. We have paramilitary police enforcing the preferred laws of their masters. What if they made sure Wall St. And K St. were not "stealing cigars" the same way?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 06:47AM by gentlestrength.

A just us system.

If you attack a cop, good chance you are gonna get shot. Nothing will help alleviate stereotypes like looting and setting your own city on fire. Nothing makes me feel better about racial injustice like a new stereo. The media has made this so much worse. Lots of misinformation creating anger and fueling the fire.

Who needs a new stereo? Don't they know they're now eligible for the Priesthood powers and all of the perks that go along with belonging to mormon society?

and the chances increase if you are black.

When a cop says freeze, you freeze...

obviously you are missing a great point.

Obviously.

Statistically speaking... Black people dont kill white people.

White people aren't murdering black people.

The biggest killer of black people? Other black people.

Where's the tantrums about all the racism blacks are suffering from other blacks?

But that doesn't make for a good story for emotional manipulation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 02:16AM by nonsequiter.

Actually, those statistics are widely known. If you're listening to a news show that tells you nobody talks about black on black crime, try turning the channel.

But, don't you wonder why? Is it because they're black?


(p.s. who's killing the white people?)

I was once threatened to be arrested.

My “crime”?

Bumping shoulders, with a Highway Patrolman.

I was upset, over the broken down truck, on the side of the highway.

Finally told my business partner, “I’m going to go back & see what this cop wants”.

On the way back, I stepped into a wood chuck hole, throwing me off balance.

Thus, I was threatened to be arrested, for “assaulting a police officer”.

Lesson: steer clear of wood chuck holes & 40 year old, going 15, testosterone ridened (whether male or female) “police officers”.

That jack a$$ left us sitting on the side of the road.

It’s been some time, since I needed to *prove* myself, to some idiot.



I grew up in a small town.

Population: 4,500, max.

There was some *black* family’s. They lived in the *poor* part of town. I *think* that they were all related.

I was just one of my mothers paychecks, from being their neighbor.

I went to school with one of them. His older cousin, just a year ahead of us, was the football teams quarter back. His younger cousin was a year or two behind us. His older sister / cousin went to school with my sister.

What does this have to do with the current situation?

I did not see anyone, other than someone just trying to fit in.

Yes, they had a different skin color.

But, I did not see someone different.

Back to Ferguson,,,,

Was this a White cop, shooting a Black kid?

OR was This a cop, shooting some 18 year old punk?

I just don’t understand.

Maybe it was just a cop shooting an 18 year old punk.

Flip your question around. The people who don't see it that way, WHY don't they understand that it was just a cop shooting an 18 year old punk?

Is it possible to understand why many people "don't understand" why the punk was shot? Is there a reason those people don't understand it? If there is a reason, can we learn anything by getting to that reason?

I was watching Ferguson on CCN, and it was going kinda slow. I figured I'd get more salacious reporting with BOX news. They didn't disappoint--twice the footage and four times the opinion.

I love the headlines and every description is WHITE cop kills black teen or black child. The media has fueled this and made it 10 times worse. Half the protesters aren't even from there. Brown was an Adult, a very large man and a criminal. I hate that he is being put up as some Civil Rights hero. He is no MLK or Rosa Parks, real heroes.

What are you talking about? President Obama attended his funeral! Clearly he is not some ordinary street thug who attacked and threatened a police officer. Obama is much smarter than that.

Just like with the Martin case, few people that are outraged by the actual case know many details about what actually happened. The media doesn't help by releasing limited detail, interjecting race into the discussion at every turn, etc... As others have noted, the rioting and looting aren't just about this case...it was just the tipping point that let out a lot of aggression over long-held perceived injustice, etc...

We'd be more likely to have the luxury of trying to solve life's inequalities if we didn't have to devote so many resources to combatting crime, rioting or otherwise, often perpetrated by society's less fortunate. I feel for them, but there are no easy answers.

Yeah, those back people should know their place, right?

It couldn't be that they have been disenfranchised to the point where they see crime and violence as their only option, now could it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 03:52AM by MJ.

I have no clue as to how you got "those black people should know their place" from what I wrote. Perhaps the reply was misplaced, but it's just as likely that your reply was totally non sequitur.

Do you ever just express an opinion without attacking what someone else has said?

It is no wonder you did not get my point.

MJ, he said its a shame we spend so much money on the problems caused by crime. Your response was a sarcastic "blacks should know their place." Your comment implies all blacks are criminals and the target of police action.

Please, think prior to typing.

I think MJ and nailamindi are trolls. I will cease to feed them.

You didn't attack me personally but unless your reply was misplaced, you did attack what I said. I recognize that the definition of "attack" can be subject to interpretation, but I choose to consider your response a verbal attack.

You seem to have the idea that because you're willing to persist for longer and with more aggression than do most posters, you are the King of Debaters and the winner of most of your arguments. Just because people get tired of you and refuse to engage you any longer doesn't mean that you've won an argument, not that winning every argument is all that important, or not to most of us, anyway.

I'm inclined to agree that you may be a troll. I don't remember your exact circumstance in relation to LDS Inc., but it seems that you said at one time or another either that you were a member of The Church for an incredibly short interval or that you were an investigator who never formally joined. I don't wish to be overly judgmental in relation to the duration anyone's recovery should be, as we all deal with such matters in our own ways and according to our own timelines. Your own description of your affiliation with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, however, would seem to be fairly insignificant by most of our standards. Jehovah's Witnesses have appeared on my doorstep on numerous occasions. I don't find it necessary to affiliate with an ex-JW recovery board based on those encounters. Then again, perhaps you're more fragile than I.

You've been extremely rude both to my wife and to my niece. I've noticed that your manner of communication on this board is generally hostile. Perhaps you should consider whom, including yourself, that you might possibly be helping with your often mean-spirited comments. Are these comments truly helping you in your "recovery," or are you in possession of some sort of delusion of grandeur, whereby you believe yourself to be outsmarting everyone you debate, which is essentially everyone you engage.

Reply to my message or don't, or complain to Susan or Eric; I truly do not care. I choose to consider you a troll and will no longer engage you in discourse, debare, or whatever one might care to call it.

I wounder what the world would be like if the Founding Fathers of the USA had a peaceful demonstration rather than waging a very violent civil war for years in in order to gain rights they felt like they were denied.

The issue is about more than just the single case that stoked hot coals into flame.

You may be one of the only ones talking sense here at this very moment. i'm beginning to think that what we have going here is a lot less openmindedness than I always thought when I first found this place. I am happy that there is no gay bashing here but several people seem to still have some of that old Mormon style racism going on.

You can't expect anything different in a Recovery board.

In people's *mindsets* I mean.

Not that I am endorsing people being racist. But mormon mindsets cant just be extinguished in a night time, otherwise this board wouldnt be here.

I mean in a way, assuming that people are closed minded just because they have reached a different conclusion with the information they were given than you, is a very mormon mindest.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 06:09AM by nonsequiter.

What does rioting, burning other people's property, and standing toe-to-toe with an armed law enforcement officer and yelling vulgar epithets at him get you?

I would hope it would be at least about ten years...

this one day in Human Rights Watch...
http://www.hrw.org/the-day-in-human-rights

The police should have told everyone ahead of time that any violence would be met with whatever measures are needed to maintain order and that there would be no negotiation or compromise about how they intended to deal with the post-announcement crimes. That store owner that got robbed didn't deserve to be looted after the grand jury announcement. The blacks climbing up on cop cars, taunting police should have been shot. Those who looted should have been shot if they resisted arrest. People who don't commit crimes and who don't challenge police authority don't get shot. What's difficult about that? None of these blacks doing violence in Fergusen are heroes. They're criminals. There's no conspiracy either, just criminals who are getting away with racially-motivated crimes by claiming racism as their excuse. That kid who robbed the store wouldn't have been successful if he didn't threaten serious violence. What he got back was violence. If mistakes were made after that, the fault was on him. He probably didn't deserve to die for his crime. But the cop doesn't deserve to have his life ruined for confronting a law-breaker who has threatened others with violence and who made him feel threatened, even if the cop made an honest mistake. Regardless of what race you are, if you don't commit violent crimes, if you're cooperative and polite to the police, you won't be shot. There's nothing racial about that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 08:15AM by azsteve.

That sort of attitude would only make the situation worse. If you do not know why, that is not my problem.

In response to MJ's post, maybe I'm ignorant. Please enlighten us about why it's a good idea to buckle to threats of violence and to let the bad guys rule the roost, commit crimes, or do whatever else they want to do because it appears to be politically correct to let them do it. Do we tolerate the lawlessness because the perpetrators are black and we think we owe them something, or because we're just bleeding-heart liberals who always support the underdog?

During the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, a black man was interviewed on TV. During that interview, he said "... when they talk about black people, they talk about looting. When they talk about white people, they talk about, looking for food". When any black community loots their own neighborhood during times of political conflict, they contribute to these terrible stereotypes. When the police indulge this behavior, they contribute to this dysfunctional paradigm. The looters are perpetuating the racism they claim to be victems of. They should have listened to President Obama last night. For once, I agreed with every word he said.

the issue is that sometimes people are suspected to have committed a crime even when they didn't just because they are black.

That didn't happen here. So what's your point?

I don't think anyone has debated the reality that Michael Brown had just violently robbed a convenience store.

.....and was then killed. That is justice?!?

I have avoided all news of Ferguson until now. From what I read, the owner of a convenience store called 911 because Brown had stolen an item, then assaulted the police officer that responded. In one report I heard he went after the officer's gun? If this is true, I can see why he got shot. This does not seem to be a black/white issue to me. This is a case of someone attacking a police officer.

I am thinking the grand jury thought the same way. They had all the evidence and felt the shooting was justified. Since they got to hear all the witnesses and see all the evidence I will trust them.

I think looting is absurd, I have no issues with protests, protests are good and serve a purpose, looting only serves to hurt people and businesses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 09:01AM by roslyn.

Exactly. Protests serve a purpose. Looting and destroying property is beyond stupid.

I tend to disagree roslyn.

In 2010, of 162,300 cases, a grand jury declined to indict 11 times only.

There was, to my eyes, easily enough evidence to indict the police officer in question.

He shot an unarmed man because the man was aggressive? Or because previously he robbed a convenience store? No tasers available? No physical restraining? How many times did the officer shoot his pistol again?

I agree, looting and burning and violence are self-destructive and do nothing to further the cause of equality.

But that doesn't take away from the apparent fact that this grand jury's finding was a sham and an outrage.

Have you ever been at the mercy of the law (both the courts and the police force)? It's not always pretty. And it's almost never fair.

Show me the wall street tycoons that have had to pay for the damage that they've inflicted on society with their crimes. And tennis courts and swimming pools for 6 months doesn't count. Up to their coiffed and starched white collars they were in it, but money and influence buys them all mercy and leniency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/11/24/the-rarity-of-a-federal-grand-jury-not-indicting-visualized/

In this case I don't feel for the kid. Have I ever walked in the street even when the sidewalks were passable? Nope, but I live in the city and it happens all the time. I have had to honk at people to get out of the street so I can pass, you know what response I get "fuck you white bitch, fucking c&^t" Yep I live in the city, so I am used to this.

Have I ever challenged a cop? Nope. Have the cops been called to my house before, yes when my children were apparently playing too loudly for the neighbors. Did we challenge the cops? Nope. Did we ignore the cops or tell them to f&*k off? Nope. We were respectful.

Have I see the way people (and yes white people this isn't about color) treat the officers? Absolutely, some are very respectful, some aren't.

So I am siding with the grand jury because I have read some of the witness accounts that are in line with the physical evidence. The evidence that shows the blood splatter was coming towards the officer not away. The witness who said even after being shot Brown still came at the officer. Not sure how a taser would stop him when it took several bullets to finally stop him.

This "kid" was a thug and he finally messed with the wrong guy and because of it he died. I can't sympathize with him because I wouldn't rob a store, I wouldn't rough up a clerk, I would walk in the street, I wouldn't assault a cop. So please disagree and defend this guy and I hope you don't ever need the cops.

I know there are bad cops, there are good cops, I don't see the world in black and white. I see it in color and do a little research before I open my mouth.

Who needs a grand jury anyway when there is a lynch mob ready and willing.

Lets all take a moment to reflect on those posters who called people racists for anticipating there would be rioting. You may all bow your heads and face palm. Repeat it three times.

Vive la Revolution!

http://russellbrand.com/revolution/youtube/

There needs to be a lot of investigation and further pressing of charges against those who did the looting. For everyone who was seen jumping through a store window or who was caught on tape, lighting a vehicle on fire, there needs to be a prosecution and jail time for those perpetrators.

Classic. Private property has always had a lot more rights than black men. All those violated windows will get their day in court, but a black man's life isn't even worth a trial.

Well doesn't the private "property" belong to people who are hard working, trying to make a living, law abiding, etc.? Some probably invested their life savings into their businesses. Some probably have infants and children that they need to support.

And some of those property owners may have been black. Certainly many of the business owners are black. What about their rights?

Their businesses have been destroyed. It would serve Ferguson right if the business owners rebuilt their businesses elsewhere. Jeez, with neighbors like that, who needs enemies?

Whatever happened to acting like a grownup?

Other Susan

Absolutely..some, if not most, of the owners were black. I think of a black mother, an owner of a hair salon, struggling for her two children, working long hours, and just barely getting ahead - when thugs destroy her place. There is no race issue here.

Are you implying black men don't own private property? Because if a black man owned a store that was looted, I suspect we would be vindicating his rights by going after the thugs who attacked his rights.

nailamindi, there was a trial, it was a grand jury. A grand jury was convened, it had black people serving on it. They listened to black witnesses describe what happened.

If Mike the thug Brown had killed the cop, I suspect your call for justice would be rather muted.

A grand jury hearing is not a trial, it is a preliminary to a trial. In this case, the grand jury chose not to have the case heard at a trial. That is what I was referring to. Additionally, unlike a jury trial, a grand jury does not require a consensus: only 9 out of 12 of the grand jurors need to agree. Furthermore, there were 9 white people and 3 black people on the grand jury, so we can't even say that there was a single black person on the grand jury who didn't want to indict. We don't know that.

I'm not advocating for the destruction of private property, I'm just pointing out that when the lives of (black) human beings are worth as much in the eyes of the law as private property, that we'll have come a long ways from where we are now.

Finally, these protests are not about Michael Brown. These protests are about the systemic extrajudicial murders of black human beings in this country. Michael Brown was the straw that broke the camel's back. If you can't see that people are responding out of a place of oppression and frustration with systemic racism in this country, maybe you should do some reading and listen to them for a while. Maybe you would learn something.

"extrajudicial murders of black human beings"

As former mayor Juliani (sp?) pointed out, most murders of black human beings are committed by blacks. It's an extremely small percentage of white on black "murder". This incident is not a good example. Perhaps it's not murder, but racial profiling that is at issue?

"at issue" overall for the protesters. I do not the Brown case is a race issue.

non sequitur. What does that have to do with this particular case? This is about POLICE interacting with BLACK MEN. I submit that police should be held to a higher standard, as they are the ones responsible for enforcing the law.

I agree, there are issues about how white cops interact with black men. What could the officer have done differently in this situation?

Choose not to kill him.

Can you be more specific?

No. He chose to solve the situation by killing him. His business/group he works for gives him a loaded gun and tells him, keep the peace. He must imagine the best way to keep peace with a belligerent, aggressive cigar stealing 18-year old is to kill him and leave him for dead for four-hours in his neighborhood.

Did he keep the peace? As evidenced by this mess, I would say he failed to keep the peace.

As long as it isn't in "my" neighborhood crowd considers this keeping the peace or taking out the trash.

Gentlestrength - I love your moniker by the way. Do you think a black cop would have handled it differently? What would have happened to me, a white man, if I would have brutalized a white cop that way? Would the white cop have unloaded his gun on me?

The same week of the Mike Brown shooting a black cop killed an unarmed white guy who had just robbed a store in Utah.

The public outrage was deafening as white people did nothing.

Why? because the cop (regardless of race) was justified.

"non sequitur. What does that have to do with this particular case?"

I didn't answer your question. The implication is that blacks should be enraged at the rate of black on black crime, which is FAR FAR greater statistically, then White Policemen on Blacks. I think the issue is routine stereotyping and profiling, and not "murder" as you indicate. I see the logic, sorry you don't.

If Mike Brown had been white we wouldn't be talking about this case. I submit that we are hyper sensitive in this country to police violence against blacks.

70 hours of testimony were heard from the officer, witnesses, etc... Do you know something that those involved and those that heard the testimony don't? Many details weren't released until today. The officer was assaulted in his police car and shots were fired as Brown tried to get the gun away from him. Would there be this kind of hysteria in Ferguson if Brown had just killed the cop in his car and fled? After the initial confrontation in the car, did the officer use excessive force? I don't know. I wasn't there, don't know if his life was threatened again, don't know if he had a taser, etc... It is clear though that isn't a case of profiling and an innocent, unarmed kid.

To me that is what some people are really missing. The kid is dead, the cigar is stolen, the policeman was scared. What is extreme of those three things? Nothing?

That's a you problem then.

How is it the fault of the individual property owner that there was no indictment? Are you suggesting that violence and property destruction are an appropriate response to a decision by a jury?

Civil disobedience is, to be effective, about sending a clear message. The situation in Ferguson today isn't doing this in a consistent or a controlled way. I see parts of this that represent a civil rights issue I can get behind but I also see people exploiting a vulnerability in the name of both sides for their own selfish purposes. It's going to be hard for me to sort through all of this, now, as a result. The civil rights movement, it seems to me, thrives on clarity and staying on point through adversity, and clarity generally favors a situation that can be thought through towards an overall plan of carefully chosen action. Understandably this may be difficult in a town like Ferguson for a time as anger has built there for far too long. Hopefully something good can be made of this situation on the balance, despite the fact that a tragedy has already occurred on more than one level.

It is disingenuous or ignorant of those who pretend the Ferguson reaction is over one, isolated event.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/truly-shocking-video-cop-shoots-black-man-no-apparent-reason

There are many many such incidents as this one, and those are just the ones we can see or have been reported!


Americans, your government has bypassed posse comitatus by giving your civilian police forces machine guns and tanks and etc. for god's sake.

Y'all need to read yourselves some Radley Balko! Google him and maybe you'll stop being such complacent enablers of your own national nightmare.

You are misinformed if you think the police officer used military weapons with the young Brown offender.

I didn't say that.


Something to think about:

http://billmoyers.com/2014/08/13/not-just-ferguson-11-eye-opening-facts-about-americas-militarized-police-forces/

Surprised you see it that way.

Perhaps you should understand posse comitatus before posting. It applies to the federal government only, and only the military when controlled by the federal government. It does not apply to the states. Thus, police forces of the several states can use military style weapons to enforce law. Also, it has nothing to do with the type of weapon. It is all about limiting the power of the federal government.

Why do American police require military weapons to police a democratically represented people with a justice system that is blind to things such as wealth, skin color, gender, and sexual orientation?

That sounds like a group of people that should be really, really happy. Perhaps the system is corrupt and not what is being sold. Good enough for you, might not be good enough for others.

America has police with military equipment. Why? Occupation or policing?

two reasons.
1. Have you seen how easy it is to be armed in this country? Criminals can out gun police pretty easily. (remember the bank robery in LA with the body armored machine gun toting criminals? The cops couldn't take them down and had to go to a gun store to get the necessary fire power).

2. The military is drawing down, and by law they have to offer surplus to government entities in this order: other federal agencies, state agencies, local agencies. There is abundant surplus out there the police are taking in.

I agree with your reasons.

Why are they occupying their country with military equipment?

Too many violent criminals you say?

If the American dream is working, why are there so many violent criminals?

Do you think these are bad people from birth?

Why do these people born into a democratic republic choose to die at 18 over a cigar in his own neighborhood? It's his choice right? He knew he was black, he knew the cop was armed, he knew knew stealing a cigar would bring the cop, he knew challenging the cop would give the cop cause to shoot, he knew if the cop had cause to shoot he would shoot.

So why did he choose to let the cop kill him that day in the land of opportunity where he has so much for which to live.

Why have American neighborhoods militarized police when Sheriff Andy Griffith used to be all that was needed dry out the town drunk and enforce traffic laws?

Who profits off of selling military equipment to cops? Who pays?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 01:27PM by gentlestrength.

No one profits from selling equipment. It is surplus that the military doesn't need. It is more given away with the promise that it will not be sold to the open market.

As for why brown would attack, that is a culture issue. I had a black client once that said he was the only one in his family not to go to jail. It ws just his turn. The stigma of jail, crime, etc just isn't as powerful in that culture as it is in others. If a kid is tough, he is showing what the culture he is in values.

Also, the american dream hasn't been working for a long time. But that is a discussion for a different thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 01:36PM by reuben.

I find it difficult to u detestad a community that considers education to be turning against their 'culture'. I cannot relate to a culture that glorifies thuggery, prostitution, violence toward women and each other through music, etc.

I just don't get it.

bingo. it is a culture issue, not a skin color issue. White trailer park dwellers have a small percentage of raising kids who excel in the world, not because the kids are incapable but because the culture the parents give them doesn't stress education and ambition.

The same is true of any culture that produces a high percentage of failures. They stress the wrong values.

If it were about skin color, the indian immigrants would not be successful. Instead, the indian immigrants are slowly taking over the medical, dental, computer science and high tech fields. Why? the cultural values they are raised with stress education and sacrifice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 12:52PM by reuben.

And the culture does not owe its existence, in some part, to a history of racism?

The indians and pakistanis were victims of racism. Look how successful they are in the UK and the US today.

At some point, you got to put your big boy pants on and take responsibility for your own life.

And, in your opinion, why haven't blacks done that?

You tell me

No imagination? Can't get you to empathize for sure, perhaps sympathize? Is that on the table with you, or do you really need someone to tell you?

Don't worry, Al Sharpton is there, this will all be solved soon.

yeah...What that community needs is a leader, not a guy who cant figure out how to pay millions in taxes.

Some of these comments are shameful.

I'm taking a break from this site.

life is hard when you leave the echo chamber.

So this was a GRAND JURY decision - not a government decision or police decision. I don't know who was on the Grand Jury, but I bet they were very careful to have a good mix of people. My recollection from doing grand jury many years ago was that you hear lots of testimony and then jurors may even ask questions.

My BIL lives a few blocks from the area. He said that some people tried to loot a pawn shop and one guy got as far as stealing a cross bow, but then local people stepped in and prevented him and anyone else from getting anything else. And then the guy was caught and arrested.