The Crazy in Utah thread closed before I could post this response. Sorry to open a new thread for this, but dammit …I wrote it and dug up all these crappy feelings …so I’m a gonna post it! Modigliani asked why a non-Mormon would hang out here …and I wonder how many others are out there who share my sordid excuse. Everyone should get a good chuckle out of this

I am a non-Mormon who has never known a Mormon, or had any family I know of connected to Mormonism in any way shape or form. I initially thought I was coming here to find out the motivations behind some very mean Mormon families who live on my block and torment me to high hell.

That’s why I came.

The reason I have stayed (lurked for months, now post a bit …like an interloper who doesn’t really fit in quite right) is because I have a powerful life dysfunction too. I was born a bastard child, raised in shame, had the truth hidden from me, was mistreated in cruel horrible ways but never told why, it was always because I was a shit. I could never do right, was thrown under the bus constantly, learned a twisted form of ‘love’, had to dig my way out to truth over years with a small spoon …and now have no family because of it … blah, blah, blah.

I could go on till I puke …but the fact is I find so much of the common story on this board so similar to my twisted experience (that that I have been healing from successfully for years now, by the way) that it has been like meeting kindred folk, even if many of you would disagree.

That’s why this non-Mormon is here. It is therapeutic to read others who have travelled another road so similar to my own. There is no such place for my ilk to hang out, not that I have found …not a forum. So here I am. Weird hey? Who would have guessed? And I don’t even belong here either …how ironic?

Been here every day for months.

Hi everyone …gulp.

You may have been here every day for months, but let me be the first---or one of the first...someone may get their post up before this one goes up---to say: Welcome to RfM!!!

As the child of an "inconvenient father" (my mother's brother-in-law), I understand. In my case, my existence literally blew my family apart...so much so that my brother died a few months ago and I only found out about it when I did a Google search. I have never met my other brother...and my biological father and I (as nearly as I can put things together) last saw each other when I was under two years old. (I have a formal family photograph in which he and I both appear.) My paternal grandparents both died after decades of real, visible, despair at the loss of their oldest son and HIS children (my two brothers-by-blood)...and it was all because I exist.

Yeah...it sucks...and it sucks in ways that most people don't even know are "there."

I am glad you found us (I've been here for over ten years now), and this IS a truly incredibly group of people.

Welcome.

Tevai

Thanks Tevai, ya it's been a lonely road. My 'existence' wrecked my family too.

:)

You are "someone's 'natural child.'"

I don't share the bond that you and tevai do, and I don't even have the excuse of being "Born in the Covenant_ (BIC). I was an adult convert. Second stupidest thing I've ever done. (The first was to marry my biological husband (the father of my son.) I got marriage right the second time. Funny, it took me 17 years in both cases and get out of the pickle I was in.

Anyway, welcome. We are a varied assortment of mostly very nice people and the admins won't fuss at you too often if you simply HAVE to rant about something OT. So you have found a GREAT group to hang out with.

As you become more comfortable with us, I would love to hear a little more about the kind of stuff that you went through as a kid. A number of us have had less-than-stellar parents.

Again, WELCOME!

Thanks catnip, I have read some of your posts. I will certainly share over time ...either in this thread if it remains open, or maybe post with a similar subject. Your head will spin hearing about all the times they tried to dispense of me with conveniently contrive accidents as a small child. Yikes!

Me

Seeing as it *is* a recovery board, I, Queen of Denial, officially welcome you on behalf of every last one of us. Pain is pain. Anger is anger. Grief is grief.

Thanks verilyverily (below this) and thank you too Queen of Denial (above). You Queen of Denial (and maybe you too verilyverily) kicked my ass the other day for pondering the existence of psychic powers. Thanks, I needed that. But I am an athiest, so I don't think I am in too much danger! Just full of a few urban legends, that's all. :0

I am reading "Recovering Agency" right now. It is about how humans become programmed by cults but also by families, society in general etc.
Of course the kinds used by cults is WAY more intensive but it sounds like you were programmed to believe you were nothing. So, in a way you definitely belong here and if it helps you, we are certainly not here to judge.

Ex-Mos have been judged so much that most would never want to judge someone else deliberately.

I say welcome.

It's the deception I found the most damaging, a lifetime of it. I think I see something here ...no you don't ...WHACK!

That's the biggest thing I relate to about the exmo journey ...among many other things of course.

torturednevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's the deception I found the most damaging, a
> lifetime of it. I think I see something here
> ...no you don't ...WHACK!

I totally agree.

In my case, I didn't find out the REASON for all the family craziness until I was well into adulthood...but when I did (my Mom was, basically, forced to tell me because my Grandma was INTENT on telling me before she died)...when I DID find out...suddenly all the "crazy" things fell into place, and though I don't agree with them (had I been one of the adults instead of the illegitimate child, I would DEFINITELY have handled things VERY differently!!!), I instantly UNDERSTOOD.

[Including why my father---the father who raised me---assumed that I was a competitor of his...when, on the contrary, what I DESPERATELY wanted was his respect---something I worked throughout most of my life to attain as, more or less, my Life's Goal.]

The deception went a WHOLE long way to destroying many of the people in my family...and it was all so UNNECESSARY!!!

But that IS the way it was.

:(


P.S. Chauffeuring time for me. Back later.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2014 11:09PM by tevai.

Took me till my thirties to piece it all together …after a bad nervous breakdown. My (pseudo) Dad was actually the nicer one …to a point. Couldn’t out-do the bio kids though, or I had to be ‘taken down’ …they had a myriad of techniques for this. My Mom hated me though. That’s what my daughter doesn’t get …I was after all actually her biological child. I can see why though …she was humiliated …she had the affair. She punished me for it.

I maintained a (unhealthy) connection with them until my ‘Dad’ died a few years ago. I thought he might come clean on his deathbed …it was a fantasy I had. He didn’t. That really broke me all over again, and my whole family died for me that day. Haven’t been in touch since. My Mom and sibs don’t mind this at all. It’s like it’s what she has always been waiting for …and she will have told the sibs a good slander pitch. She wins again …yay! She always controlled the flow of information in our family. Controlled my poor ‘Dad’ too, it’s a cuckolding thing.

Well, enough for this post. Phew, this is kind of …fun?

Only reason I'm jumping into this conversation is that my father told me his brother, my uncle, had a child with a married woman who passed the child off as her husband's. The child was a girl and my uncle hadn't told anyone except my dad and my dad hadn't told anyone but me. I feel weird being the last living person knowing about this. I have no idea who this cousin of mine is or who her parents are. I've wondered if I should tell my legitimate cousins that this half sister even exists. Would they want to know or should I just keep my mouth shut?

That is a really tough question.

For me, knowing would have meant making a lot of different choices in my life, better ones. I did stuff to gain approval that was never going to come, until I drove myself insane …literally. I would say, if this person lives a visibly disturbed life, then they would probably gain from knowing. However, if they were raised with love and a good home, I might be inclined to say don’t …you’ll blow up their head.

They say lots of kids are illegitimate and never know. In my case, all the adults were in on it (grandparent, a close extended family) and I was really screwed over by them. If I had known as a young person …I would have gone “I understand, thank you” …and walked away a long time ago.

Find out if they are suffering first. Ask yourself …are they a mess?

I misread your question. Should you tell your cousins about a half sister they don't know about? Don't know what's right there either. They won't be suffering and likely won't benefit one way or the other. Would it be an interesting story? Or would thier lives come crashing down. If they aren't hurting, maybe don't break 'em.

In my story I was hidden INSIDE my immediate family, they could see by my twenties I was suffering ...and they chose to cover thier own asses. Little different situation.

I hate "Illegitimate Child" and "Bastard Son" What honorably derogatory thing to call a child based on the actions of the parents.

You were a child that should not have been labeled in such derogatory ways because of the actions of your parents.

I would suggest you do yourself a favor and drop referring to yourself using such terms.

torchurednevermo-
I, too, have never been Mormon. And while my heart truly goes out to you with your life situation, I have clung to this board after I divorced out of a tbm family. Married 12 years to a non-believer, the crazy-making, righteous, cruel treatment from his family led me to a very dark place. I could never figure out why I was treated with such dismissiveness and often times disdain. While married their son- who lived life on the edge of excess(alcohol and spending) I found myself living the worst of lies. By the end of the marriage, I attempted suicide and checked myself in to a clinic for over 3 months in order to escape the darkness and dishonesty.

I haven't really shared my story here on this board because I have never wanted to compare my suffering to the pain suffered by those on this site. When I decided to quit spinning the craziness of living with my former family of choice, I desperately needed to know that I wasn't alone. This board opened my eyes and my heart.

I hope you have found the same support in order to heal and move forward!

Thank you for sharing, and I am finding the board very helpful.

To MJ, I agree ...and I certainly don't refer to myself with a label. It was just used here for clarity of my story.

BTW did you know BASTARD is the last acceptable swear allowed on prime time T.V. Can't slur races, or genders, or sexual orientation ...but you can slur me. And then the laugh track comes on. I hate that, really bothers me, listen for it ...you will hear it a lot. Are we the last invisible minority? Hmmm.

Welcome, Torturednevermo. You DO belong here! I agree with the poster who said that we all have been either shunned, abused, dis-owned, divorced and worse--by people who we thought once loved us--or should have loved us.

My own parents, and especially my 6-years older brother were abusive. My brother was allowed to beat me up, torture me, break my things, humiliate me in front of my friends, make sexual threats--whatever he wanted--without being punished for it. Mormonism denies, excuses, and even enables abuse, just like my parents did. Our parents had a lot in common, and we have a lot in common.

Sometimes, I feel like I don't "fit in" with the ex-Mormons who had a happy time at church, and good memories of their childhood. Many of these people stumbled on the Truth, and could no longer support a lying cult founded by a polygamist con-man. These people mourn the loss of all their friends, their family, their "tribe" as on poster calls it.

My children and I, on the other hand, were happy to leave! We left before we even knew about the doctrinal and historical lies. We formally resigned when my children told me that the Mormon leaders had been abusing them for several years. These creeps were our neighbors, and pretended to be our friends. When I was away at church playing the organ, they would break into our house and drag my children out of bed, onto the floor, kick them, make them get dressed, shove them down the stairs and into a car, drive them to church and guard them to make sure they didn't leave. (Mormonism is a cult!) I didn't know about this, until one day, I became a caring parent, and asked them, sincerely, exactly why they hated church so much. My youngest little girl told us that the bishop's repulsive high school aged son had tried to molest her, during a church campout. When she screamed, several kids witnessed what the perv was trying to do, and he stopped. The bishop threatened the kids, including my little girl, not to tell. Again, there is support for the perverts and liars, and blame for the victim.

You, and I, and my children, and most of the people on this board, are learning to not blame ourselves, for what the sick cult members did to us. I have PTSD, and maybe you do, too. I wish you could get professional therapy, because that speeds up the healing process. Some of us have more to overcome than others. The support of RFM has made a huge difference in my life! It will help you, too!

Your story made me feel less alone. You give us hope, because you have been healing successfully for years. You have a lot to offer!

Welcome. I too was born a bastard, but knew from my earliest recollections that I was special because I was chosen. There was never any shame in my life. I cannot fathom why parents would deny such knowledge to a child. I have a good friend who always suspected he was adopted but it was a big secret in his family and didn't find out the truth until a couple years ago...in his late 60's.
I hope you find some fellowship here because you sure sound like you could use some.

Ron Burr

Thanks Ron, and thanks ExMoBandB.

I am just sharing my story ...don't get thinking I am in a current crisis or anything.

I have a lot to be grateful for ...a great supportive wife, two great well adjusted kids (I am all about 'not repeating the cycle', this ends here!) I get by alright. I just thought I would jump on in and share in case my story can bring any insights the way your stories have brought the same to me.

:)

Could share some more if you like? Don't want to be a bummer though.

I was blessed to have been adopted and raised by the best parents anyone could ever ask for. And when my wife and I found we couldn't have children of our own, we adopted also and raised our daughter and son with love and respect. And they know it.

Ron Burr

As a young mother (31 years old with a 3 and 1 year old) this just breaks my heart. You see, my three year old is high energied and strong willed. If she wad raised by the wrong people, she totally would have been abused because of her personality. This is thought that makes me shudder. I love that little girl with every fiber of my being and I have never touched her in anger.

I wish I could have been there to hold and hug you as a little child and told you how special you are. Everyone deserves that. Someone failed you, but that doesn't change the value and worth that you inherently have. You might be a never-Mo, but you completely belong here. People who you trusted, the very people you should have protected you, mistreated you and lied to you. That's why we're here and that's why you should be here too :) Sending you lots of love right now!

Awe shucks, now I'm blushing!

1) You will gain insights from this Board and other sources, about Mormonism and that package of out-of-wedlock issues, but there may be a significant, even painful disconnect between your feelings and your mental understandings. Give yourself time to heal and grow. With time, your emotions (which may seem out-of-control and very irrational) will heal and begin to connect with your understandings. Some of this will just happen, but you will also need to apply a certain amount of conscious will power. It's worth the pain and effort.

2) Mormons have irrational beliefs which direct irrational emotions and actions. Thus, they have bullied you. It may help to understand that they place a prideful, irrational importance upon their genealogy. They take great pride in "where they come from," because of the cultic belief in "forever families." Hrumph! you know how dysfunctional those families can be. Focus on making YOUR family sane, stable, and loving.

3) As an American, I believe that where we "came from" is almost beside the point. I may, or may not, have Mayflower ancestry, depending upon the reliability of a genealogist, whom my father once mentioned had a knack for finding notable forbears. Big deal! The brigands, horse thieves, swindlers and claim jumpers of 200 years ago are now revered as "honored pioneer forefathers." Hrumph again!!

What counts, torturednevermo, is where you are GOING, and what you are DOING with your life NOW. Not how you got here. Absorb the wisdom various posters have for you, take responsibility for the healing and growth you need, and create a happy and meaningful life filled with healthy and loving relationships.

You can do it!

Me thinks truer words have never been spoke!

During the time I was writing that post, you posted that you are determined not to let the cycle repeat, so you're obviously savvy to what I am saying. Excellent! Your healing will advance with individual steps and days. Like an alcoholic growing in recovery, the days become weeks, then months and years and a larger, healthier totality emerges.

Regarding the Mormon bullies? "Illegitimi non carborundum!"

LOL ... Wikipedia says:

Illegitimi non carborundum is a mock-Latin aphorism meaning "Don't let the bastards grind you down"

I won't caffiend, I won't. I just had a big belly laugh, thanks for that!!

G'night everyone!

:)

OK, one last blaaaah, then its time for bed.

Here is an interesting study in psychology.

So my bio father was a musician, then later a big record company exec. (Yes, I know who the guy is …no idea if he knows about me though).

So two things happen:

First, my pseudo Dad quits his unrelated career after my birth, and follows this guy into the record business for years. Like a competition to be the guy my Mom appears to prefer. Eventually he returned to his previous career and lived the rest of his life sort of depressed. It’s a common thing for a cuckolded guy to do …my half brother did this after his wife left him for another guy too.

Second, I became obsessed as a child with music (???) and go on to be a musician, quite a successful one, as if on some quest to unwrap this package sitting inside my brain. After my first breakdown and several therapists helping me to unravel this knot of strings in my head, I lost my interest in being a professional musician completely. My interest simply disappeared. Isn’t that some weird psychology?

My family loved me being a musician. They could belittle me, and talk about what a misfit loser I was till the cows came home. Certainly not like my successful professional bio siblings. They encouraged me at music, and used it as a shaming tool!

I should say here, the bio siblings came before me, brother then a sister. So, as my grandma always used to say to me “They had the perfect family …and then I came along”. And that shit just sailed right over my head. I would just chuckle uncomfortably.

Later, after music …I strived so hard for approval that I got a computer science degree …first degree in the family. Top of my class …got a 3.89 GPA. Got married, had a couple great kids. Well …now I was in shit …I was outdoing the bio kids. They set out to put an end to that. Dynamics within the family at functions escalated to the absurd. My mom starts driving my kids around without seatbelts on, weird accidents start to befall my kids (hey, just like my youth). I, being aware of my story by then but not wanting a confrontation, just limited contact and lived a more distant life.

The better I did in life the more I was just was just shooting myself in the foot. I am happy my dads death brought the end of all this. The passive-aggression, the self-esteem blows …it was insanity, and you suffer in silence. Do you see why I relate to the way some exmo’s describe their family dynamics? I definitely agree with the ‘cut ‘em loose’ crowd. Wish I’d done it years ago when I knew, but I wanted a family. However, it was just more abuse.

Without them now, it is pretty clear sailing so far …moving forward with my great wife and kids! The onion keeps peeling away! Hooray for life …right?

Anyway, enough for this post …hope it’s an interesting read. :0

Thanks everyone here for your support and kindness. I value those two things a lot in life, and you didn't disappoint.

What's amazing to me is the level of pain and nasty behavior at the hands of Mormons that has nevermo's hanging out here. Mormons are so busy being self-righteous and persecuted, they fail to see what assholes they can be that fuels the reason people don't like them. I'm a nevermo too. I have found this board to be a great place of support and advice. A lot of that advice, while geared towards issues specific to leaving the Mormon church, can be applied to all kinds of life situations and family dysfunction. Mormons should be shaking in their boots at how awesome the evil ExMormons are!

Welcome mate!! It is great to know that there is another way the board can help. I am SO sorry for all you suffered. It is unthinkable. I hope that you continue to find all the help you need here.

Can't say that I have it as hard as you did, I live in a loving family with 5 younger siblings. But when I was younger, things were different. I was abused and mistreated on a daily basis by my parents along with three of said younger siblings. I now can only pin the blame on mormonism's authoritarianism and social norms. Things eventually changed around the fifth child but left me with some of my own scars. Thank you for showing that there is life after abuse like that, and keep fighting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2014 11:56AM by secularhumanguy.

Good morning everyone and thanks again for your positive reception here last night.

I thought I should clarify a few things that might not be clear. First, when I said I have lurked here for months, most of that time was spent reading a good majority of the 700 or so short topic archives getting a glimpse into the Mormon mind and searching for examples that might help me deal with the problem of my nasty Mormon neighbours. Although I never found any direct examples that describe my experience, I did gain enough knowledge of Mormon psychology to understand why they might be motivated to, and feel justified in, treating my family the way that they do. Enough said; know thine enemy …not that I ever asked for an enemy.

I guess I am just a longhaired gentile with a wife who wears the pants in the family. We also have pleasant, well-behaved and conscientious kids. We live well, and that must drive them nuts …we are the opposite of the model they have been taught to expect from heathens. We must be discredited! I am comforted. Seriously, it’s not us …this is their problem.

The second thing I want to clarify is about my screen name. The word ‘tortured’ in my handle is a reference to my current neighbourhood situation, not my life story about being a child out of wedlock. I don’t want to inadvertently suggest or infer any connotations that were unintended. Maybe I should change my handle due to the imagery it confers. ImmaculateConception comes to mind …or maybe not.

I was not overtly physically abused as a child. I was mentally and emotional abused; they didn’t scar my body, they scarred my mind. This is what I identify with in the Mormon (or ‘cult’) experience. The similarities are astounding. My abuse wasn’t physical …it was mental

I was stood in front of grandparent’s beehives in summer clothes while they wore protective suits and stirred up the hives. I held the smoker …duh, bees instinctively attack the guy with the weapon. When I was stung, they put me in a room alone, occasionally sticking a head through the door hoping for anaphylactic shock. Sorry, I wasn’t allergic.

My grandma sent me out one day in -30 weather without a coat to find my parents who were snowmobiling in the wheat fields. That story was reiterated many times over my life. I was found walking on the packed trail …”If he had just stepped off into the deep powder, we might have never found him.” It was reiterated to tease me about what a bad, foolish child I was. I never brought it up it that it was grandma who sent me out to find them. I was conditioned to not speak up or defend myself.

I was left in malls, but was never abducted (aw shucks). I was let to roam around in bullpens where no other human dared venture (bull just stood there …why aren’t you afraid of me?). My bio sibs where certainly monitored as children and kept safe.. Every summer I went to a certain relatives farm to ‘give my mom a break’ while my bio sibs went on great holidays. There I was encouraged to befriend a violent ¾ wolf guard dog that bit and attacked every other human it ever encountered. Dam if that mean old dog didn’t just become my best friend. Shucks, their plans where foiled again!

These, and many other childhood recollections, are events I have categorized and classified under ‘attempts to dispatch me through contrived accident’. I believe on some level I understood this as a child. I feared them all. This is emotional abuse. So is being sat down by your grandpa, who then gives a gift each to your brother and your sister and grins at you saying that you will never, ever get anything from this family. I didn’t know I was illegitimate …what did that do to my poor brain?

Emotional, mental abuse is what they inflicted and this is why I identify with the whole cult thing here on the board. It’s the screwing with your mind that does the damage. It can leave quite a legacy.

It has left me uncomfortable having close relationships with others because I never had those as a child. I am confident when I don’t know you well. However, when you get close to me, I will flee …I was patterned on distance, not closeness. I tend to make friends with those who have a disdain for me, to match the relationships I learned as a small child. Makes for quite the doormat. People who are attracted to me creep me out. My mind thinks, “How unusual you would like me …what is this strange thing …get away from me, icky”. Try living your life with blinders like that.

Anyway …in my mind, you Mormons are being abused, I have no doubt. Your minds are being warped like mine was. That is why I have remained here beyond doing my initial research, because I can identify with the patterns of your abuse …the great almighty mind fuck.

I feel I have probably told as much of this story as is necessary. I will lurk and pop off a comment when I feel I can contribute. I can’t give advice regarding specific Mormon nuances, but I do like to positively reinforce people. I like to pick people up when they are down. I will do that, and maybe offer occasional advice regarding the healing process in general. I may even be inclined to make the odd witty joke. I am kind of a smart-ass …I have that whole rejection of authority thing going on pretty strong as a result of my journey. (Bawahaha!).

Anyoo,

Thanks again peeps, I will be lurking. I might consider changing my screen name to something less graphic, who knows …but I will identify myself if I do.

Chin up people …and …over and out. ☺

Welcome!

I like the cut of your jib.

We'll have no sexual talk here, thank you.

LOL

I'm a moose. He's human. No sexual innuendo implied. Nothing sexual implied by "innuendo", either!

I like your comments, ckudgie. Your humor and mine are of the same ilk.

Edited to add: No, not "elk"!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2014 02:23PM by moose.

MY OPINION

1. You are a human being

2. You were not responsible for the circumstances surrounding your birth

3. If you are to be judged you should only be judged by your actions and not by the actions of your biological parents.

4. You cannot lay claim to the successes of your parents. Those are their successes and not yours.

5. You cannot be blamed for the failures of your parents. Those are their failures and not yours.

6. Anybody that oppresses you with a different scenario should have great shame for their actions.

BULLY BULLY BULLY FOR YOU !!!!

I imagine this has been stated, but i hate, hate, hate the term

Illegitimate.

What is a better term that isn't a sentence? Something a scientist might use, not a priest or prophet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2014 05:18PM by gentlestrength.

I think 'illegitimate' may descend from legal terminology.

I have done some investigating and found that any claims I may make to my fathers estate are not 'legitimate' under the law. After all, the judge wants to be sure my dads cash is protected from that 'little bastard'. It's a societal thing born out of history. Like so many other things in our crazy world until someone has cash to go to the supreme court.

Interestingly, the original 'real' father is off the hook too, once I have lived with the mother and the psuedo dad for 6 months.

It all protects 'them' from the inconvenience of 'me'.

I have no legitimate legal claim to much ... my claims are 'illegitimate'.

This is interesting.

http://www.law.ualberta.ca/alri/docs/fr020.pdf

You can call me 'Asshat Mc Titface' for all I care. Remember, it was the way they treated me that caused all the damage ... not the label. I could care less who's baby I am ...I take exception to being mistreated and abused.