Elohim is perfect.
Logic dictates that anything He creates must be perfect.
Therefore Lucifer is perfect . . . and so are we!

Where is the error in this logic?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 12:51PM by Tom Padley.

Elohim is NOT all powerful.

If he WAS all powerful, he could have changed the rules, instead, he had to follow the Handbook of Instructions and had to sacrifice his favorite kid.

He didn't have a choice.

He therefore, isn't all powerful.

therefore, "he" isn't god at all.

But I'll bet his wife is.

Because Lucifer is essential to the plan as tester of souls.

Obviously an Irish family--there's always one kid who's a priest, and then there's that "other" kid.....

You mean Elohim _are_ perfect.

Well, they have a perfect sense of humor. As practical jokes go, TSCC is perfect. Once you see it in context, it's really funny.

Bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You mean Elohim _are_ perfect.
>
> Well, they have a perfect sense of humor. As
> practical jokes go, TSCC is perfect. Once you see
> it in context, it's really funny.

I was just going to point that out :)

"Elohim" is the plural term for the Canaanite pantheon of "gods," that included "El" (the head god), his female consort (who goes by various names, but often Athirat and later Asherah), his sons Ba'al Hadad (whom the Hebrews later adopted and then started to call Yahweh) and Molech and even Attar -- god of the morning star, or "son of the morning," who later came to be called "Lucifer."

The mis-naming of the one "Christian" god as Elohim by Joseph Smith is actually one of the most glaring and obviously false mistakes in making things up he made. The name comes from the Canaanite pantheon, is well-attested in antiquity, and is plural. The singular "El" was sometimes used in the early development of Hebrew tribal god identification as the "head" god that they considered their particular tribal god (but good evidence suggests that they took more attributes for their tribal god from Ba'al Hadad and changed his name to Yahweh, and then gave him a consort Asherah, rather than co-opting "El").

For the curious, here's some reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religion

Always raised red flags for me too. Have two sons, one good, one evil so they could battle each other for eternity? ( and make a whole shitload of shyster preachers filthy rich.....hmmmm...to quote Dana Carvey's The Church Lady"...."ISN'T THAT CONVEEEEENIENT"?

Ron Burr

I bet lucifer is more interesting to talk to than Elohim

According to the temple film he's the only one with any personality.

Naaa he lost a huge part of his personality since it's no longer Michael Ballam

So, if Elohim screwed Mary to make Jesus, I bet he screwed Sarah Palin to make Satan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 01:48PM by ladell.

One bag, two bags, or coyote?

God can only create perfection. That's why he had to create everything in the garden of Eden. Lucifer was perfect and so were we and blah blah blah yakkidy smackity. Why am I defending this? Anyways Lucifer made his own choices and made himself unclean and so on.

Another question with the same answer.

Change one letter around ans Santa becomes Satan.

It is sort of like particle physics... they can only pop into reality as particle/anti-particle pair.


So Lucifer must be as powerful as Elohim, and if they ever shake hands, they obliterate each other.

I call that cognitive dissonance :)

When you polarize yourself, you create a polar opposite.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 06:30PM by donbagley.

Is polarizing yourself considered sinful? And does it mean you have to do it with your dominant hand?

Well, technically he created us from already existing floating lights balls known as intelligences. Apparently we already identified ourselves as male or female so he didn't even create our gender. The question is, which of the gods in his lineage created us as intelligences? Cuz that god would be the one who fooked us all up, including Satan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 06:37PM by confuzzled2clarity.

Why did Elohim need to resort to means like a mortal life to give us bodies? Any human father can have children with a body. As the story goes he has a body and it presumably works perfectly well. He gets together with eternal companion # xxx and what happens? Well, not much, really. Not something his physical eyes could see if they were anything like ours (why he has a body like ours in his state is another good question). As the almighty he should see the endless results of these unions forthcoming, including the ones that would later be residents of a lesser kingdom if not cast out into outer darkness. It raises the question of why various aspects of this aren't going better for this plan of His. Even with free agency it's telling it isn't going better. Lucifer is incorporated in the plan with a role to play, but why he got to romp around in heaven trying to dissuade the other spirits, 1/3 of them so literally billions, into an obvious dead end road is very strange. Why then were these billions so vulnerable to these ideas after living with an all-knowing Father? How do we reconcile so many falling so far? Then, of course, being less faithful in Earth life could lead to eternal discrimination/segregation in the three kingdoms. In the longer term it could be considered a close equivalent to a static race being assigned to such a state, and who knows if any color or other mark would be used to ensure this segregation as has often been suggested by the writings we have from numerous LDS leaders and in the Book of Mormon. It's hard to say how many more billions would be damned in this segregated way (an eternity for one lifetime of mistakes, some of which seem pretty understandable if you have a heart about it). Of course, I took all of this for granted as a TBM. I pretty much intentionally didn't notice that all of this is so absurd. It shows the position I think many in my position may have found ourselves in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2014 08:28PM by masonfree.

You can bet that REAL SEX was involved since it is always REAL SEX with the CULT and polygamous sex at that.