"Calling the Book of Mormon 'Bible Fan Fiction' makes perfect sense to me. It's almost the best 3 words I can muster to describe exactly what the Book of Mormon is."

Ain't nobody haulin' his ass in for a good whuppin' by the high council?

(Why am I talking like this? I don't know!)

...It's almost as if he's been daring the Church to come after him. Maybe he's got some crazy, antique archival stuff. Maybe a "document dump" if the GA's go nutzo on him?

No...... he's just been hitting Granpa's old cough medicine.

Dehlin received his "second anointing." Google it (fascinating story). Maybe they can't ex someone who has "election" made sure...?

you are thinking of the one and only Tom Phillips

I think you are mistaken. John Dehlin interviewed a man who had the second anointing. He did not have it himself. Please provide a link to somewhere that shows that John Dehlin had a second anointing, or people are not going to believe you.

If I'd said those same words 30 years ago, I'd have been ex'd in a heartbeat.
Makes you wonder...

And Kate got Xed!!?? There's definitely something fishy going on here.

What it shows is that the LDS church is about power, not doctrine. Wanting to share power is a bigger crime than blasting the foundation of the doctrine, because doctrine isn't that important. It's just part of the smoke and mirrors by which the leaders maintain control. It's all about obedience, anyway.

+1

They both talked about Kate getting ex'ed but not John, Kate seemed a little bitter about it.

Anyhow following John on facebook is fascinating just to see what a man can get away with saying.

His wife openly flaunts her shoulders too. Fascinating.

She obviously doesn't wear her garments. I also notice that Hans Mattson posted a picture where he is obviously not wearing garments.

To (mis?)quote a young woman from India who fights against child brides "men are afraid of women speaking."

Where did you find that? Where/when did he say it?

Maybe he's already been exed.
Maybe he knows where the bodies are buried.
Maybe he made a sizable donation.
Maybe ...... shrug.

It son his Facebook page. I was surprised too!

I think he genuinely loves the Mormon tradition and is maintaining his right to stay regardless of belief, as long as he arrived his conclusion via intellectual honesty, following directly only the evidence.

Plus, he's a professional mental health counselor. There needs to be a bridge, an olive branch, permission to doubt, or something like that for those who feel trapped by the church and can't leave for whatever reason.

Doubtless, there are many of us who left only after the price of staying became more unbearable than the price of leaving. There are many like us suffering in the cult who don't want to strain their family relationships.

The church is a wicked institution for forcing the my way or the highway on us all. I think John Dehlin is a brave pioneer trying to break down that polarized dichotomy for the sake of mormonism's victims: the mentally infirm.

He loves the club, just hates the rule books.

He seems to like taking a sharp stick and poking at the beast just enough too keep it annoyed. It's snapped at him a few times, but testosterone seems to be his best weapon.

I have to agree with his description of the Bom. It's a title that I think will stick, at least in the exmo world. Problem is, i'm not a big fan of the Bible either.

I'm always asking people why they think the words and superstitions of people 2000 years ago carry so much weight. Mankind has learned a lot about how the world works during that time. We understand how some things may look like a miracle or an awesome wonder from the heavens. We also know how stories change and get embellished over time. Not to mention the flat out lies people tell. The Bible isn't a very good choice for information on how to run ones life. Most of it is so impossible that it borders on comedy. Take the talking ass for instance. How can anyone read that story and keep a straight face?

Golden Rule ain't so bad, even (especially?) if it started before Christ, same for the parable of Good Samaritan.

Golden rule isn't in the bible.

If JD really wants to ex'd, he can do what I did. Be inactive for 6 years.

That was it, simple.

I have been inactive for 25, I guess the statute of limitations applies to me

madalice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Golden rule isn't in the bible.

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to
you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
--Matthew 7:12

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them
likewise."
--Luke 6:31

And, of course, don't forget Fallopians 8:13--

"He who has the gold makes the rules."

To me Dehlin's description pales to Mark Twain's " Chloroform in Print" for the Book of Mormon. Plus I love Twain's comment that if Joey had left out all the "it came to passes," the book would have been a pamphlet.

I agree with that assessment of the BoM. "Bible fan fiction" is a very good way to describe it.

Sometimes I think he actually WANTS to be excommunicated and is goading his Stake President into action.

I don't think there is any doubt he wants to be exed. He can't seem to get kicked out. Lugging the fake golden plates around during his interview with Sandra Tanner - joking about how it would be impossible to carry them. Listing his beliefs on the "About" section of his website - should have been enough to get the boot.

Maybe episode 500 of mormon stories, which he's been holding back for a few months, will be the final straw. I'm thinking he's going to release the Tom Phillips interview as his 500th episode, along with some good press.

I think this is brilliant. How could TSCC counter that claim? They don't want to have to officially defend the historicity of the BOM because they know they can't defend it.

"Fan fiction" is a work which everybody knows is fiction based on another work. Joseph Smith claimed that the BOM was a factual ancient record, rather than being a modern-day "fan fiction." Thus, it's more accurate to describe the BOM as a fraud or a hoax based on the Bible.

What is the date of the Dehlin FB post?

I have to say I'm hooked on his podcasts. I admire John because he has already won. Kate Kelly was a no brainer ex for the brethren. Did anyone think a woman had a chance of coming out of this clean? The church, as an organization, is horrible to women. The real question is why she even wanted to be Mormon or ordained for that matter? In my opinion it's because of their respective audiences. Kelly's audience is predominately feminist. That means the church can cut ties effortlessly, and they did.

Dehlin beat them. Even if they ex him now, they blinked first. His audience includes Mormon scholars, Ex-mormon scholars, church members , etc... To ex him would be territory the church won't want to visit again, especially in light of their current membership problem. Dehlin has them over a barrel, they can't win.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2014 09:05AM by DWaters.