It's uncanny. How do I shift the dialogue and put blame where it lies?

"I'm not the one that slept with teenagers."
"I'm not the one who lied to you for 180 years."
"It takes an abusive system to blame the victims."

I just don't know how they do it. Even nevermo's don't get why it hurts and gets stuck in my craw so much. I'm sick as hell of this displacement or whatever it is.

Common Mo tactic;

when a TBM is hurting another, 'it must have been for a Good Reason', etc.

Mormons: Dodging Responsibility for nearly 200 years!

You are their problem. If you look closely, you'll see that they have a lot of problems. You're in good company.

people who leave. (Lazy, sinned or wanted to sin, lost the spirit, didn't have enough faith, too proud, etc).

You might be able to come up with some standard responses to those accusations. You could respond that the church isn't true, so you aren't obligated to obey or have faith.

Or you could address the fact that their pattern of attacking YOU doesn't make them right, OR make their church true. It just shows that they are intolerant and abusive.

After I left the church, it helped me to read some books by Patricia Evans on emotional abuse. I realized that many of techniques used by TBMs against 'apostates' are straight out of the emotional abusers bag of tricks. They are techniques designed to make you doubt yourself, your perceptions, and your self worth. After reading it, if someone tried one of those techniques on me, I could instantly recognize it for what it was. So instead of making me feel bad, it was like an "AhA" moment. Those behaviors lost their effectiveness because I recognized them for what they were. In fact, sometimes it was rather humorous. Manipulation isn't nearly effective when you recognize it.

http://www.verbalabuse.com/

If you have some specific problems with certain people, maybe you could post about it and get suggestions on how to respond next time it happens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 03:32PM by imaworkinonit.

This was after she had just told me that I was slow and clumsy.

It's a battle you can't win. Just come here and vent where you'll be heard and receive honest feedback.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the individual is a narcissist.

On other posts, people have suggested turning it on them by saying something like:

So, are you okay with church leaders having sex with other men's wives? Because your church condones it.

My particular favorites now are: Why would anyone believe in a church that has disavowed itself? I mean, the church essay says you guts disavow all forms of racism past and present, yet you still have a ton of racist scriptures, like 2 Nephi 5:21. Its clearly a racist scripture. Are you racist? If not, then why are you still a member? And do you condone your church lying to you?

Or bring up how the Bok of Abraham has been proven false by all Egyptologists. So JS has been priven to not be able to translate which proves he was a fraud. And throw in the Kinderhook plates for good measure.

Hi GoV, I think the hurt is due to a deep down betrayal that many of us, who bought into the cult, feel. Nevermos didn't buy into it and don't feel the betrayal and grief. TBMs can't dig deep enough to see the betrayal, so folks like you and me think the problem is us.

Well, it's NOT us! We looked at the evidence and conflict and said, this is wrong and we can't be a part of it.

Possibly a reason we're so uncomfortable around TBMs is that they're so damn sure of everything and we see our former selfs with the same cocksure attitudes. I cringe at what the BYU me must have been like!

I spent many years in the Morg beating myself up because I couldn't be perfect enough. Now, with all the essays admitting what many of us found from reading forbidden materials, I feel both disgusted and envious of TBMs. Why envious? Because now my fixed stars aren't fixed anymore and I have to live life in all its complexity. It sure would be easier to do psychological foreclosure and just say, "well, the prophet has spoken, so the thinking has been done." And not have to worry and deal with complex societal issues.

Nothing like a little existential angst to make one uneasy! But, we now have the means to live our lives based on our passions and interests rather than being merely holograms of individuals. The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 09:47PM by byuboner.

Yes thanks, I think it is probably true that the ONLY people on earth who can understand what we feel are those who have been through a Mormon faith crisis and felt the betrayal of their loved ones.

Sucks to be number two to an idiotic cult. Or number three to a mythological understanding of a potentially nonexistent being and an idiotic cult. No good way top see it

They have to assume they're right to feel credible and validated. That makes everyone else wrong. With that attitude it's impossible not to put others on edge.

No, you're right. It's they who are wrong and brainwashed. The trouble is their brains have been tampered with and they're unable to reason beyond "Black is black and white is white and Mormons are always in right no matter what."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2014 03:52PM by Cheryl.

All messaging is distorted by the beliefs and perceptions of the sender.

Filter each message before allowing it into your psyche.

If a message comes from a TBM, filter it based on your knowledge that the sender is a brainwashed automaton with puppet strings attached to the grubby fingers of the Big15.

Think of the TBM as a lifelike robot spouting pre-programmed cliche's ... because that's exactly what you are hearing: pre-programmed cliche's.

However difficult it might be to NOT take destructive messaging personally, you owe it to yourself to NOT let toxic, poisonous verbal assaults in deep enough to hurt you.

Litmus test: If Thomas S. Monson were saying the same thing to you, would you take him seriously? Howzabout if Joseph Smith were trying to make you feel bad about yourself?

I tots agree with the above statement beyond ashodow made.

I think simply it's their own insecurities manifesting through child like response reflexes...it's what they have been conditioned for. thinking beyond this is fruitless and requires adult attention spans and cognitive reasoning skills and acumen. Do as I'm doing...follow, follow, me...blah, blah, blah...