Background: My ex husband, whom I was married to for 20 years, since we were 19, is the oldest of six. He is an alcoholic and that coupled with his infidelities led straight to our divorce. I have remained on good terms with his parents and have made extra efforts to make sure they understand that I wish for them to participate in our children's lives, particularly in light of the many years when they seemed to not notice they had any grandchildren as we, alas, were apostates, and therefore shunned.

We were treated as second-class-citizens for years. Barely acknowledged while the other five kids were raised. Rarely invited to participate in family things. It was ugly and hurtful and I seethed about it; it hurt my husband too. It continued on even as every male child reached adulthood and left the church and the two daughters reached adulthood and left for BYU-I and the very first available return missionaries.

Then a not-so funny thing happened. While my in-laws were blindly, merrily planning their youngest son's Eagle scout project for him and smiling while visions of missionary calls danced in their heads, their youngest, who had been largely free-range from birth, wound up a heroin addict. This was a shocker.

He did some low-security rehab and a little of this and a little of that, and he ended up stealing from his parents, forging checks from them, throwing drug parties in their house, let his junkie girlfriend move into their abandoned driveway RV, robbed his brother and his wife, stole tip jars right off the counters at Starbucks (STARBUCKS! The very appearance of evil!), and, God as my witness, burglarized half the ward WHILE THEY WERE AT CHURCH. Addicts, as we know, will do anything they have to do to get more drugs.

Long story short, kid ends up in prison. Turns out all these burglaries and check launderings were slightly felonious. In-laws visit him/ call him/ run around on his behalf ferociously, pressure us constantly, via text message, to reach reach reach out to their prodigal son. At some point, he has backslid enough times that we are, all of us who are no longer LDS, tired of his shit and uninterested in exposing our small children to it. We all live in the same area. For whatever reason, both sisters, who live in other states, remain steadfastly behind their brother, who has shown no indicators for being prone to taking up the Melchezdik priesthood anytime soon. They post inspirational talks from Sherry Dew about forgiveness and tag their brother. This makes little sense to me.

So, he gets out, my mother-in-law has to make him her project. Has to. And I UNDERSTAND. I understand the pain of having a teenager who is out of control and I also understand addiction implicitly. I learned the hard way that there is no running interference for an addict and getting the desired outcome. You're just going to drown yourself trying to keep him from drowning.

But my mother-in-law can't see it. She has to run the whole thing like this horrible Relief Society craft project from hell and somehow we're all supposed to show up with glitter glue to do our little parts, but we don't want the craft and we don't want to glue. We're not interested. Meanwhile, my inlaws continue to show little interest in their other sons, you know, the ones who live down the lane and have wives and kids and jobs and could really use a family. Laser focus on their LDS daughters, their daughters' children and this addicted son. They manage to spend more time with their son who lives in prison three hours away than with their other local three sons combined. They also manage to spend more time with their out of state LDS daughters, hell, even nephews and nieces than their local sons and grandchildren. It's mind-boggling.

Kid gets out of prison, gets a job through a program to help felons find jobs, does well for a while. Goes through the steps from work release on through halfway house and on until he is finally allowed to live on his own. Both my inlaws and this young man insist, INSIST, that it would be toxic for him to ever live at home again, as the drug memories would be too intense. So he gets a small apartment. His mom coos over it on Facebook. Everything is SO ADORABLE.

He immediately tests positive for heroin. You can go back to prison and serve out your sentence or do a 30 day rehab "boost". He does the 30 days. Mother in law goes and gets him and brings him home to live. My two sisters-in law, their husbands (my ex's brothers), and I are all immediately like, nope, no way, forget it. We all tried to save him, repeatedly. We all tried our hardest. We tracked him down and yanked him out of a meth house and stole all his clothes and dragged him home and none of that worked. We don't want our children having a very heroin-addict Christmas next week. Two of these kids are in diapers. I have no real anger or problem with the addicted son but both my brothers-in-law and their wives are VERY angry with him for all the stuff he pulled all these years, robbing one of them repeatedly, including identity fraud, destroying their sense of safety and trust.

Crap, did I forget to tell you that my mother-in-law cannot handle direct communication of any kind? Like, she'll die. Like, she'll burst into flames if you say the actual hard truth instead of singing a Primary song and winking during the words that will add up to a hidden message. And only speaks in riddles, Facebook cross-posted feel-good memes with dogs on skateboards or with silly jokes? You probably knew that, right? And the sisters are the same. It must be a Mormon thing or something, MAYBE.

Anyway, realizing my in-laws now seem to intend to bring uninvited addicted brother-in-law to my house on Christmas Eve for brunch, I step up and send the most tactful and succinct text I can (the inlaws only use text to communicate, not phone, so I was sticking to their chosen communication method), saying that I am sorry but none of us are comfortable having addicted brother around our children, so if you cannot make it because you need to have him under your supervision, we understand and we love you and we're sorry, but we hope you can make it. The entire reason I wanted to have the brunch was because I wanted a time when we could all be together and inlaws could see their grandchildren at the same time for the holidays, instead of piecemeal.

Mother-in-law responds with, "Okay, thanks" which I can assure you right now is her version of "To Outer Darkness with you".

Both MIL and a SIL immediately make worlds' most passive aggressive big fat baby pants FB posts using cross-posted memes about heartless people and the things they do and you'd just think you could count on FAMILY and my question is THIS:

Why in the world will Mormons choose heroin addiction over healthy church-free living? My mother in law had a grand mal seizure when I gave her cat catnip her word of wisdom heart was so offended and yet, they open their home to a man who has used hard drugs in their living room and stolen thousands of dollars from them? And it's like they worship him. It's like they worship him.

Oh Jesus, I just remembered, he was also convicted of trying to strangle his junkie girlfriend on her front lawn.

They had no problem shunning us for years, WHILE SMILING AND INSISTING THEY WEREN'T but now we all have been cast parts in a pageant we don't want to act in and never auditioned for. Why can't they see? Why can't they see that pushing us out because we were dangerous to their children's faith process was baloney (and obviously didn't work), and that keeping a drug addicted criminal out of our lives is actually sane? Why don't they want to protect their children and grandchildren from an actual threat instead of an invisible perceived threat?

Am I wrong to not invite a convicted felon who has repeatedly robbed his own family fresh off (?) heroin into my house?

In other news, of course, SIL continues on her endless Facebook tirade to keep the prison from coming to town.

"For whatever reason, both sisters, who live in other states, remain steadfastly behind their brother,"

THEY have not had to deal with him and his fallout. Maybe he should go live with them for a while and see how they do.

As to not having him come into YOUR HOME with your SMALL CHILDREN to me that is a no brainer. NO. Your responsibility is to your kids and your SELF. You are not being mean or selfish, you are being RESPONSIBLE. If you really feel the need to punish yourself go poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick instead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 12:48AM by Susan I/S.

Couldn't agree more..

That is horrible, Not just because of all of the bad things that have happened, but because that is EXACTLY the kind of child that my super @$$ hole MORmON parents really deserved to have, and did not.

You did right by making that clear.

But honestly, I don't know why you'd want those in-laws in your OR your children's lives even without the junkie along for company. They can't have an adult conversation about a reasonable boundary you have set, and should never have HAD to set. Rather than discussing, they resorted to passive aggressive facebook jabs, instead. They have withdrawn their love for years, and even now, it sounds like you are just playing bit parts in their life drama.

As much as it would be nice to have a healthy relationships with loving grandparents, these people are NOT going to teach your kids that they are loved and valued. I think that they would merely teach your kids that they are second string.

Truthfully, they're just window dressing, always have been. We tried and tried and tried but it won't work.

It's been one of my life's greatest sadnesses that I married into this huge vibrant family, thinking we would get to be part of that, and yet my children grew up without grandparents, without aunts and uncles even though they were all there. They just were never there. (My family is worse, in a totally different way).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 11:50PM by madalice.

I sure wish I had been able to protect my marriage from people with addictions. My ex left for the HR lady, a vicious manipulative narcissist with a stack of DUI convictions and the gigantic recycling bin stuffed with Coors cans to prove it. He's now such an alcoholic that he cannot remember that everything he says to me he's already said 400 times. He's just like her. He's on an eternal loop. He fought me to death on alimony but didn't have an ounce of fight in him when it came to how much he sees his children. Not applicable. My kids have been through hell. But I cleared this place of alcoholism. Followed that Al-Anon book like it was the bible. Found a friend in an alcoholic, nine years sober to talk to me in harsh terms, with no buttering, ever, whenever I got lost in my inevitable mixing of emotions and memories with this new mean ghost I can't quite completely shed.

And I learned the hard way. God, I tried to save him from himself. He's the most lost thing I've ever seen but I stay away, now that I understand. I get burned every time I get near him.

My inlaws have been through AA but they revert to the concept of Heavenly Father's forgiveness and a mother's love and things which are lovely but can never do anything but give an addict a clear view into what he can manipulate. They just refuse to see.

I am the person in the family who is brutally honest and with the strongest boundaries so I'm safe and my kids are safe. I have no intention or even the slightest desire to have BIL in my life. I just can't fathom how they can expose their grandchildren to it. I'm an idiot for completely failing to mention that my 2 year old niece and her parents live in a MIL apartment downstairs from my inlaws. They are moving out immediately.

I love French milled soap! Addicts, not so much. It's a horrible thing, the worst thing, the trickiest thing. Oh, the heart. Tries to be smarter than the brain.

"Your are doing the right thing. Don't ever question yourself on this one. All children should be protected from thieves, junkies, and their enablers. I don't care how close their family is."

A major point...I agree completely..

Of course you did the right thing. They are wrong and out of line. You are correct and sane. I would do the same as you!

I totally agree that you should stand your ground. It's your house and you and your kids deserve safety.

Family members like that can only be loved from a distance, if at all.

Sounds like your Christmas brunch just got a lot happier!!!

You are doing the right thing. I have a son and a nephew who are both addicts, and my son abuses alcohol too. He just spent a week with us and I had to tell him he can't stay with us again, ever. Letting go is the kindest thing you can do, for everyone's sake. Those who haven't learned this one simple but powerful thing will continue to invite drama and pain into their lives.

From the sound of things, you are in a truly challenging situation with that family. I too am challenged with family that just can't see how they ignore those of us who aren't TBM, but it's very obvious to me, and it's hurtful. I continue to try and build my social network outside of the family, in effect creating a new family of sorts. It's not easy, but it helps.

Anyway, good luck going forward. I admire your strength of character and commend you for sticking to your guns.

Your MIL and FIL are beyond brainwashed. They're… how can I put this… drooling toxic cretins. The two SILs, not much better. IMO, you are better off with them completely out of your life. You have shown uncommon generosity in trying to maintain relationships with these walking bags of swamp gas. I couldn't have done that.

"My mother in law had a grand mal seizure when I gave her cat catnip"

WTF?? See above comments.

"about heartless people and the things they do and you'd just think you could count on FAMILY"

But only when it benefits THEM of course.

If I understand your post, your ex has two other brothers who are out of the church, appear to be on the same page as you regarding Heroin Boy, and live nearby. Do your kids have any relationship with these uncles & cousins?

Yes! They are both wonderful, fed up with Mormonism and addicts, and with the most wonderful wives. I wish I had had a crystal ball when I was younger to see that it wouldn't always just be us "outside". I have a niece and a nephew that I love and it's so great to be "in" and not be held at arms' length because we're not Mormon.

My kids are older, much older though. When we married, the heroin addicted brother was one year old. My oldest is only one year younger.

She's very very childlike and will not abide anything which is not. Her self esteem is very low. She must always smile. She's weary. She's been through a lot. She's helped me in the last year, compassionately. But surely she noticed that nothing we did, nothing I did was able to make my ex stop drinking. He won't stop until he loses his job and notices that the serial adulterer he left me for didn't stop adultering on his behalf.

I think she believes she will button up heroin addict into a little suit and put him into the pew like a doll and they can share a hymnal and it will be like a miracle. She'll raise Lazarus from the dead.

Why does MIL do it?
One theory,
She has very low self esteem.
So if she does something heroic and 'saves' her son she doesn't have to look at all of her failings, her shortcomings, because she knows she's done a lot of stuff that's wrong.
So she takes a koolade shot and repeats the mantra

If you should labor all your days and only bring one soul into the kingdom of God how great will be your joy with your Father in heaven.

She can't go to heaven because of what she is: a mean, selfish, self centered woman.
So she must keep everyone busy over her 'lost' lamb son.
Because if she saves him, everything else she's done in her life is forgiven.
she doesn't take responsibility for her self.
She won't own the good or the bad....it will always be out there and someone else.

Her whole life, and what she has taught her son, is service to herself first. Selfish.

So you're not missing anything not having these toxic people in your life....


It is the sickness of an organization that nurtures selfishness and childishness It is the real 'fruit' of Mormonism

Mormon Observer said something that I also learned about addictions. Your MIL, in focusing all of her energy on "taking care of others", is really her way, even if she is not aware that this is the case, of not dealing with her own issues. If you are busy, busy, busy with others then you do not have time to look at yourself.

Mormonism does encourage people in this direction also in that they encourage helplessness in all their members by telling them that the organization is the one who sets the rules, can guide them and give them all of the answers.

In this way, members do not learn that they should and are more than capable of taking care of themselves.

Protect and take care of yourself and your children. I second the suggestion to tell your MIL about Al-Anon, and this organization would be a great resource for all of the family members involved with this family member who has the addiction.

Wow...that's really intense. I can understand your anger...

First of all, I am sorry for the pain this causes you. Look I'll be blunt. I understand your need and desire for "family" but your ex inlaws don't. Mormonism wired them differently.

I too would not want a druggie around my kids.

It is time to cut them out of your lives. They do not bring any sense of comfort or a relationship to you, your kids, and the ex's in their family.

It is not healthy to force or attempt relationships with those type of "family". It especially is not healthy for young kids. Blood is not thicker than water...imo.

to brunch and, as difficult as it can be, it is better without some of your family. I don't have much to do with my 2 sisters and they are far from junkies. They create untold drama in everyone's lives. Only one is active Mormon, though I wouldn't call her TBM. Her 3 children are out, as are all her grandchildren, and they are fine upstanding citizens and she caters to them rather than the other way around.

BUT, I have an "addicted" son. He is down to suboxone twice a week, off everything else, but he is unpredictable, and he lives here. He can cause drama now and then. It isn't every day. He doesn't steal. He has done some destructive things, but I know I enable him, but I will NEVER put him out on the street. My sister's kids went through some addiction and 2 of my brothers. And they are all doing well now. I can't give any advice on enabling. All I can say is that I "understand" the fear.

I heard one day on Dr. Laura some years back. A son called in to the show and said that he was a success and yet his parents always catered to the son who had failure after failure and he couldn't understand why. Dr. Laura said, "Be thankful you are not the other son. Your parents know they don't have to worry about you, take care of you. It is a compliment to you that they don't feel that need."

I was actually that child and as my life fell apart, they left me to take care of it as they had other children who needed them more. They asked me later how I did it and told me they were sorry over and over before they died. For those of you who aren't the enabled ones, be proud that you are not.

OP, I love your writing style. Very engaging. I had to laugh at "we don't want the craft and we don't want to glue."

It's very hard sometimes to maintain one's sanity in a situation like this, and it's easy to think that maybe we're wrong. But you're not. Everyone has given very good advice. Hope it gives you strength in your resolve to protect your children.

Stand your ground. Your BIL has a long way to go and a lot to prove before he is allowed to be in your home again. Let your MIL and FIL deal with him. You don't mess with heroin addiction. It is a beast. Stay well away from it and let the experts handle it. My guess is that your BIL will be back in prison before too long.

One thing that I've learned from spending many years working with at-risk populations is that you can't make decisions for people. You can guide, mentor, and coax, but ultimately they make the call. You need to learn when to let go. With your BIL, it is time to let go. Some people have to learn from the school of hard knocks. Whatever you say is pretty much meaningless to them. They have to find out for themselves.

As for your MIL/FIL, there is a saying -- when someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time. I would keep them at arm's length and focus on cultivating relationships with the exmos in the family.

Well I keep trying to reply to this, but it won't let me. How are you supposed to know which word is a banned word? No matter what I change, it still won't work. It's frustrating.

Basically I was just saying that my parents are the same way with my brother, but it was a little more detailed than that. *sigh*

I got into a very frustrating conversation with my Dad yesterday, when he wanted to put a chocolate out in the livingroom which was filled with Grand Marnier. I said that it would be really hard on my brother, who is currently dry, to see that. But my Dad just kept saying, "You're making things up. He's fine now. It's over. You don't have to worry about him anymore."

They once gave him their life's savings, trying to help him keep his house, after his drinking made him lose his job. He lost the house anyway and ended up in a cheap motel with his cats, which my Dad was paying for.

I tried to explain that he might be in control at the moment, but that doesn't mean that you need to stick things right under his nose. My Dad just basically told me that I didn't know what I was talking about. Uh, right Dad. I've only been fighting my food demons my entire life and am still currently losing that battle.

I once gave up chocolate for a year, only to give in to one truffle. Within three days, you'd think I'd never given it up in the first place. But yeah. I don't know what I'm talking about, Dad. I've also been derailed after six months by one silly cookie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 12:19PM by Greyfort.

Is hold the entire family hostage one way or another.

You're doing the right thing by keeping up the boundaries, because junkies have none, nada, zilch, zip. I remember hearing Bob, an addict counselor for Dr. Drew, explain how one of his lowest points was when he stole a friend's daughter's Lion King DVD to pawn for a fix. They will steal everything and anything and no one is off limits.

That's the second time I've heard of a TBM mom flipping out about catnip. Are they really so dumb that they don't know catnip is in the mint family?!? She better not have any spider plants around, because cats will chew and get a mild high off of those.

Long time lurker, infrequent poster......
It's not so much a Mormony thing as it is them feeling guilt or whatever it is they feel toward heroinboy.
I had the same type of parents. I was the successful one, and I had TWO siblings that ended up being addicts. Sister died in 03. I literally watched my crackhead brother bleed my parents dry over the next subsequent 10 years. No matter how hard they tried, he never did straighten up. Mom died April 2013, Dad 3 months later. Crack boy got almost everything. Over the next 11 months, he got 48,000 bucks from a disability claim, and blew it, and blew my parents' savings, lost their house, and ended up kidnapping his pill head ex girlfriend. He now sits in jail, waiting for trial and prison. I have no sympathy for him. It may not sound right, but you have to be in my position; and you will be someday. I feel relief that the long hard journey is over. He knows when he gets out of prison not to knock on my door. But, he now, and my parents then, never realized that I was the one being deprived of my family. So I look at it like this.....he now gets what he deserves. I actually feel better now, sorry for the rant.

Sounds to me like a perfectly acceptable natural consequence (provided he has ever stolen anything in your home or the homes of other siblings).

Another way some families handle this (particularly if there has been a natural break and maybe the young man is trying) is to invite, but hire/or appoint a bodyguard who will keep him straight while remaining within 5 feet of him through the entire party. (Sometimes the oldes sibling accepts this role.)

Time to make them your ex-in-laws, I fear.

As a recovering Heroin/Opioid addict, I sympathize with your desire to protect your family, and empathize with the Heroin addict in question. Addicts usually aren't inherently criminal or degenerate; their addiction makes them that way, and, speaking from experience, drives them to do unspeakable things they would never do sober. I've stolen from my family, strangers, committed crimes and felonies to get fixes, and told lie after lie to everyone around me, and manipulated the shit out of my poor parents. I would probably be dead if they hadn't helped me.

You need to understand that kicking addicts to the curb when their bottom is about to fall out, or already has, can be a death sentence. They're too prideful to go to rehab, a homeless shelter, or sometimes to even go home. Alcoholics and homeless addicts of every sort die in the winter in Salt Lake City (I assume your from Utah); just go over to Pioneer Park if you don't believe me.

Knowing when to give and take is a fine balance, and consulting with people trained in addiction therapy is a must, and other addicts with plenty of recovery under their belt. However, If someone has used up their chances with the people willing to help them, They're usually looking at prison, a hospital, or six feet under.

It doesn't sound like this person is in any way your responsibility, and given his propensity to steal from family, I don't blame you at all for not wanting him in your home. I'm over a year sober on a Methadone maintenance program, under the care of doctors and therapists and all that shit, and my sister in law still has a problem with me being around her newborn twins, and it breaks my damn heart, cause I never did anything to her personally or my brother. I predicted this behavior out of her when I found out she was pregnant, and it came true, and now I feel incredibly hostile towards her. I've never done anything irresponsible with children, but that probably isn't the point with her. She knows I'm an addict, so in her mind, I'm the most likely person to hurt her children. It's rational to her, and maybe rational to most people, even though I know I'd die before I let anything happen to my niece and nephew.

I don't know what State the OP's BIL is in right now, if he has any sobriety, if he's using every day, but he's probably feeling a mix of regret, fear, and resentment, if he's trying to get sober. Addicts who are decent people when they are sober have a hard time with family members who don't want anything to do with them. Just keep some of this in mind. For all I know this kid is a psychopath and doesn't have a decent bone in his body, and manipulates and uses people even when he's sober, but if there's good in him, I would consider, after he's demonstrated some serious commitment and a couple years of sobriety, letting him back into your life, if you or he have any interest in that.

It's weird hearing all this, I feel like you're all talking about me. It's hard hearing the truth about the behavior of addicts from the perspective of the people they hurt the most.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 11:00PM by midwestanon.