That seems to be the message in some of these threads.

What's the solution to all the crazy atheists? Reason or religion?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 12:51AM by thingsithink.

How about stop stereotyping both religious people and atheists? Both come in good and bad,smart and dumb.

Great idea.

Now that people are out of the equation, is it reasonable to discuss wether certain beliefs/conclusions have any merit?

thingsithink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Now that people are out of the equation, is it
> reasonable to discuss wether certain
> beliefs/conclusions have any merit?

Yes. But I'm afraid that the answer will still be that beliefs are not truths, whatever their 'merits'.

Sure as long as we are respectful of feelings and dont come across as know it all jerks.

Sounds good.

So, how about starting here.

1. Regarding those who state they lack of belief in God - is it reasonable to lack such belief? Does this position contradict the available evidence?

2. Regarding those who assert mormonism is true - is it reasonable to hold this belief? Does this position comport with the available evidence?

3. Regarding those who assert Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected - is it reasonable reach this conclusion? Does this position comport with the available evidence?

4. Is there evidence supporting the truth of a religion sufficient to conclude that atheism is unreasonable? Is there another reason to embrace religion instead of atheism?

I'd be interested in your response to number 4 Tal, if you're interested in responding.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 02:07AM by thingsithink.

. . . something you know a lot about!

If the atheist were able to define religion the way the way some people on this board want to define atheism, we would be able to define Christianity as the Westboro baptist church rather than Christianity in the broader sense for what they all have in common.

Only if you deliberately misunderstood every comment made on the concept of atheism that were made yesterday.

A lack of religious belief does not magically confer intelligence.

I wounder how the theist would react to atheists making the same claims what a single theist, say, Pat Robinson, says.

So every comment was about atheism and intelligence to you?

Sorry, I am not the one not understanding what was said. I posted many posts that had nothing to do with atheism as a regard to intelligence. Again, sorry, discussing and disagreeing over an idea is NOT a commentary on the intelligence of the others in the discussion.

Is your case really so weak you have to fabricate such obvious falsehoods, or is your comprehension level really that bad?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 02:18PM by MJ.

Wow. Such tolerance

That's not technically true, for spiritual intelligence doesn't necessitate theism.

http://www.francesvaughan.com/what_is_spiritual_intelligence__9770.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_intelligence

I think very few people, if any, lack everything that's included under the umbrella of spiritual intelligence. But some get stuck at the term (which is why multiple intelligence author Howard Gardner used the term "existential intelligence" instead. Some include conventional "psychic" components in their definition (higher states of perception or awareness, etc.), but this list points to a wider dimension of human consciousness which may or may not be associated with either woo or rewigion. Any atheists against these?...

Self-awareness: Knowing what I believe in and value, and what deeply motivates me.
Spontaneity: Living in and being responsive to the moment.
Being vision- and value-led: Acting from principles and deep beliefs, and living accordingly.
Holism: Seeing larger patterns, relationships, and connections; having a sense of belonging.
Compassion: Having the quality of "feeling-with" and deep empathy.
Celebration of diversity: Valuing other people for their differences, not despite them.
Field independence: Standing against the crowd and having one's own convictions.
Humility: Having the sense of being a player in a larger drama, of one's true place in the world.
Tendency to ask fundamental "Why?" questions: Needing to understand things and get to the bottom of them.
Ability to reframe: Standing back from a situation or problem and seeing the bigger picture or wider context.
Positive use of adversity: Learning and growing from mistakes, setbacks, and suffering.
Sense of vocation: Feeling called upon to serve, to give something back.

Richard Foxe, is this sarcasm? (Sorry, I'm not sure.)

For example, these are much like the dharma of Buddhism, which is not theistic (though indigenous Asian traditions transferred their spirit beliefs onto Buddhist practices). "Atheism" doesn't necessarily eliminate meditation, mindfulness, compassion, and virtue-based living. It is not synonymous with materialism.

So you are saying that, using the list you gave as representative of qualities which define Spiritual Intel, atheists appear to you to lack Spiritual Intel. What?


This very site is the evidence against that claim:

1) All over this site are stories of people exhibiting those very qualities in spades at great personal cost, while the TBMs in their lives choose the less Spiritually Intelligent path.

2) Many of those exmos are atheists, as they tell us themselves.

3) Therefore, "Atheists lack Spiritual Intel" is false.


What are you talking about? I'm NOT saying I don't understand the qualities that you listed; I don't understand your subject line, given that those very qualities are demonstrated over and over and over and over and over again on this site. Sometimes by atheists.

I wanted to propose that although some board atheists question the existence of "spirit" or "spiritual" (linking these to disembodied intelligence), they may actually claim and exhibit many of the traits of "spiritual intelligence"--which may be totally non-theistic.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Since apples have seeds, don't point them out in oranges.

You can slather any flavor frosting on your vanilla cake that you want to. You can sprinkle it with nuts and coconut or drizzle chocolate sauce. But that is frosting and the vanilla cake underneath is still vanilla.

Why try to make so much of atheism when it is simply lack of belief in God? Add any other personality trait you want to an atheist, but that is frosting.

This is purely anecdotal, but in my family stupidity has a testimony. Secular thinking violates mindless orthodoxy and is a one way ticket to disinheritance. I'm pretty sure that has distorted my view of the debate between religion and secularism on the whole. I definitely favor secularism and consider it smarter than Mormonism in particular.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 01:35PM by donbagley.