From Grant Palmer's An Insider's Ciew of Mormon Origins. He puts together so many things, some of which I had noticed but stupidly couldn't weave together into a tapestry.

Just look at 3 Nephi 12, which is near word for word with only a few alterations.

When Jesus mentions being cast into prison, in the Nephite version he changed "farthing" to "senine," referencing back to the Nephite currency set forth in alma 11 almost for no reason.

This would make sense, he was adapting his sermon to terms they would understand in America, right?

Cast gour eyes up a few verses and look at the word Raca.

Raca.

Supposedly it's an insult or offense of some kind directed at one's brother. No Biblical scholar knows exactly what it means.

Why would Jesus take care to adapt a "farthing" to Nephite understanding, but not "Raca"?

Whether it was a farthing or a pence is irrelevant, because the way the verse is constructed, we know it's a unit of money, the smallest unit of money wih which the Galileans would be familiar.

But Raca? No one knows. Would Jesus take care to adapt part of his speech but not all of it To Neohite understanding? Or look at it this way, if Joseph's seer stone showed him what the characters on the plates meant as the Nephites understood them, why not translate it?

Again and again the BofM shows an understanding of the Bible that is no more advanced than knowledge that was available in 1829. It feels a lot more like Joseph was just remixing familiar phrases in a new context as he consulted a KJV bible.

Even the apologists admit that Joseph when Joseph saw similar wording on the plates he consulted a Bible to transmit the exact English of the King James. This is an elaborate, unsubstantiated story to explain what is really very simple. Cut the bullshit and just go straight to Joseph consulting and quoting a KJV Bible--no plates, no Angels, no access to any information greater than what any man had in 1829, which means no revelation. Occam's razor is a bitch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2015 03:49AM by Cold-Dodger.

Raca - An Aramaic word that KJV translators couldn't understand how to translate.

Neither could the Power of Mormon God with Smith so the KJV had to do.

That's just one of many similar problems like speaking of the Roman Mile to Nephites, copied from Matthew KJV.

3Nephi 12:41 "And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain."

Would Nephites understand the Roman Mile measurement of Roman Soldiers marching?

Roman Law dictated that Roman Soldiers could commission by command a civilian to carry his equipment a mile for him and this is what Jesus was referring to when speaking to the Israelites of his day. He said 'hey go two miles' instead of complaining.

When were Nephites ever commanded by Roman Soldiers to carry their military equipment?

Playing Jo's advocate here... JC had a few days to preach to the Nephites the same things that he taught to the Jews over three years. It is entirely plausible that JC taught a few Jewisms to the Nephites without thinking about it.

3 Nephi 13:25-27:
25. ...Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? “

Matthew 6:25-27: (from the KJV of the Bible – not the JST)
25. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?”


The passages are identical which is understandable as Jesus may have said the same thing to both groups of people in the Old and the New World.

The Joseph Smith Translation of those same passages in the LDS Bible for Matthew 6:25-27
25. And, again, I say unto you, go ye into the world, and care not for the world: for the world will hate you, and will persecute you, and will turn you out of their synagogues.
26. Nevertheless, ye shall go forth from house to house, teaching the people; and I will go before you.
27. And your heavenly Father will provide for you whatsoever things ye need for food, what ye shall eat; and for raiment, what ye shall wear or put on.”


Joseph Smith corrected the Bible. In doing so he also corrected the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is the most correct book and was translated a mere decade before the JST. The BOM was not corrupted over time and did not need correcting. How is it that the BOM doesn’t match the JST?

Another Example:

3 Nephi 14:6
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Matthew 7:6
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

JST Matthew 7:10-11
10 And the mysteries of the kingdom ye shall keep within yourselves; for it is not meet to give that which is holy unto the dogs; neither cast ye your pearls unto swine, lest they trample them under their feet.
11 For the world cannot receive that which ye, yourselves, are not able to bear; wherefore ye shall not give your pearls unto them, lest they turn again and rend you.

the BIGGEST problem with all of this is...... Jesus isn't being quoted, at all!!! None of the Bible was written by contemporaries of Jesus who were scrupulously recording every written word. As such, the fact that verbatim biblical text is found in the BofM is prima facie evidence that the BofM is a fraud.

Also, consider the use of "adieu" (Jacob 16:5–7). This speaks directly to the point the OP is making. Clearly Jacob didn't speak French. As such, it would be argued that it was an "interpretation" of a Hebrew word (after all, Jacob is a son of Lehi, who was allegedly a Jew)? But then, do ANY Hebrew words translate best into French when speaking to an English speaking audience??

The whole thing is utterly ridiculous when you start looking at it critically.

Good point. The section I posted comparing the Bible, BoM and JST would almost seem as if Joe didn't know what was in the BoM when he created the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible.

The Invisible Green Potato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Playing Jo's advocate here... JC had a few days to
> preach to the Nephites the same things that he
> taught to the Jews over three years. It is
> entirely plausible that JC taught a few Jewisms to
> the Nephites without thinking about it.

Oh, sure -- because the in-the-flesh incarnation of the all-knowing god of the universe doesn't think about things, and makes typically human mistakes.

Oh, wait...

Is it REALLY true that JS NEVER preached out of the BoM? If it's true that he only used it as a prop, then TSCC has a lot more 'splainin' to do...

So in the Book of Mormon, Jesus repeated nearly word for word exactly some 17th century translator's interpretation of the writings of Matthew, which were initially written down years after Jesus' death.

Don't really have to dig much further.

If the BoM was written using the bible, then either Joseph Smith memorized word for word sections of the bible or he did not translate by gazing into a stone in a hat. The scribe could have done the "translation" (aka copying) from the bible without Joseph Smith being present, which would have freed up horny Jo for more "in depth" activities :O

'Raca' is obviously derived from the French word 'Racaille" which translates roughly as "scum".

Oh, wait a minute, that can't be right - it 'only' dates from the 12th century...

It's quite a good description of the Smith family around the time of the production of the BOM, though.

Tom in Paris

Anyone interested in knowing more about Smiths undoubted plagiarism of the KJV should take a look at this site.

https://kmabom.wordpress.com/kjv-in-the-book-of-mormon-case-closed/

I brought this up to my bishop. All he said was, "God gives the same words to all his prophets." I wasn't convinced.

I have compared the Tanner's compilation of New Testament phrases in different chapters of the Book of Mormon to computer attribution of authorship for the chapters of the Book of Mormon. Most chapters with a high percentage of Biblical text are attributed to the Baptist Preacher Sidney Rigdon. Cowdery also added a fair share.

I'm fairly convinced that originally Joseph was acting as frontman for Sidneys new church.

Simple? Check...
Easily referenced? Check...

Here's a bunch of evidence right here:


http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/