Most of us here have made the mistake of including other people in our identity: the Mormon leaders.

Having an identity that includes others brings an interesting reaction when those others screw up. Since you can't distance yourself from your own identity, you end up defending yourself. By defending their actions.

I'm guessing many of us, before losing faith, defended something about Mormonism that we're appalled at now.

This applies to many things: Mormons defending marriages to 14 year old girls, other things. They don't really agree with what happened, they're just defending themselves.

One of the things I like about atheism is that God/religion is not part of my identity. Thus, when people blame God/religion for whatever, I feel no personal attack. I feel better able to stand back and try to objectively evaluate.

This seems part of the theist/atheist disconnect. Since God/religion is a part of a theist's identity, it seems unfathomable to some that it ISN'T for atheists. Thus many people insisting that atheism is an identity when for most atheists it's not. Thus the objections when someone attributes the actions of one atheist to another.

ETA: Susan, my apologies for an out of bounds reference.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 04:18AM by Xyandro.

Very insightful.
I'm interested in identity at the moment from a psychological standpoint (trying to understand the TBMs I love).
Mormon beliefs and culture insist on weaving themselves into the believer's identity. It's not just other people that get intertwined with one's sense of self; it's the ideas, too, especially the idea of a testimony or "witness of the spirit." To lose that is to lose your sense of value.

I agree about the relief that comes from the disconnect when you no longer have to defend something because you think it is a part of you. Interestingly, I have found myself feeling that way about God, too. Even though I don't consider myself atheist, I don't feel that rush to defend him in conversation. Let him fight his own battles. Or not. I don't think he cares. But that's because I feel like he is pretty far removed. And I'm ok with that. Hmm. Very interesting.

I just want to thank the OP here again.
As I have considered this more, it has really helped me understand the anger directed at me from my believing husband.
It still hurts like hell, but at least can understand it a little better.

"Having an identity that includes others brings an interesting reaction when those others screw up. Since you can't distance yourself from your own identity, you end up defending yourself. By defending their actions."

Damn. You just made something huge click in my head. Thank you.

+1+1+1 What Xandro, Dinah, and Mockinbird said!

I think that the principle of being able to disconnect, and step back, and open your mind, helps in every aspect of life! It definitely helps you see the Truth.

My very intelligent father tried to teach me this, when I was a child. He called it "detachment." My psychology teachers said that therapists can't help their patients, unless they detach from them. In business, I learned to not become too attached to the outcome. Last week, my doctor said that his mentor in medical school warned him, "Don't be too in love with your own ideas."

I'm so much happier with this new open-minded approach! I can accept different opinions, different cultures, different methods. I use my own inductive reasoning (after gathering facts). I can be creative. Mormonism was keeping me from being my true self.

I don't think, ever, I could have condoned abuse, polygamy, polyandry, rape, lying and stealing, and of course not murder. I always fought for the purity of my own heart, my own soul.

I agree that God is "pretty far removed." I believe that the face of God can be seen through the Hubble telescope, across the incomprehensible distance of billions of light-years.

Having my own separate identity brings me peace, and it does make Mormon social-climbing, competition, money-grabbing, scams and lies seem petty. LOVE is what really matters.

Thanks for this thread. I really was having a hard time understanding how Mormons can continue to defend the indefensible.

I don't think so! Nicely written post. Appropriate, IMO.

There was a comment that Susan removed from the post.

My mistake.

Ah. That can happen. Apparently did!

Still, it is a very good post!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 09:33PM by moose.