" You must not think, from what I say, that I am opposed to slavery. No! The negro is damned, and is to serve his master till God chooses to remove the curse of Ham."

Prophet Brigham Young, New York Herald, May 4, 1855, as cited in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1973, p. 56


___________

So, how many here are racist, be honest? The "curse of Ham" is just an excuse to "justify" racism and oppression!

You do realize this is an EX-mormon board, right? So, the answer to your question is likely ZERO.

I have never understood racism to be honest. I don't understand why the color of skin matters so much. I've never not liked someone because of skin color, sexual preference or gender.

If I have an issue with someone, it's because of their personality or how they treat me.

What I do feel bad about, is going along in the church and never seeing the racist things in the BOM for what they were. I always believed we were all children of god. I guess I just never sat down and thought about the "curse" like I have now.

I also thought men and women were equal in the church. I don't know if I just blocked out the crap or what. I just thought "the church is good. So of course Men and women are equals. Color of skin doesn't matter."

I did think that sexual preference was an issue. While I never hated anyone who was LGBT, I did think it wasn't of God. Good thing that god thing is all made up.

For years, I tried so hard to convince myself that I wasn’t racist; but if you have to try so hard to convince yourself of something, the opposite is probably true.

As I (very) gradually became more honest with myself, TSCC’s racism gradually started to bother my soul. I did mental gymnastics and a lot of thinking along the lines of “things will be fair and just during the eternities,” to keep me from being too uncomfortable.

Was I racist? Yes. Am I now? I really try not to be, and I’ve made a lot of progress.

"I'm not a racist, but I play one on LDS, Inc."

I was born in the segregated, racist Jim Crow South. We moved away to the northeast when I was in 3rd grade. Because of that, I was thankfully exposed to a different culture and had friends who were black. And then we moved back South the year I started high school -- the first year of court-ordered integration. Our branch prez there was one of the most racist men I have ever met -- openly racist in church!

The final nail in the coffin of TSCC for me was the "revelation" (although it was NOT presented as such at the time) in 1979 that god had changed his mind, and black males could now hold the "priesthood." What a farce! It was so clear that it was the expedient thing for the church to do for many reasons. For one, the church was greatly expanding missionary efforts into South America, especially countries like Argentina which are much more of a racial melting pot than the USA. I remember reading the last page opinion piece in Time magazine regarding the church's change in doctrine, and that really crystallized it for me that the whole thing was a fraud.

I am a dachshund. We come in all different colors. I am a dapple color and quite handsome, actually.

But the fact is that I'm just an old dog, and here's what I don't get...

How come folks think that's so cool that dogs come in different colors, but not cool that people come in different colors too?

And if dark skin is such a bad thing, how come so many white racists like to tan themselves as dark as they can get?

As always, Stalker Dog, you are a wise hound who asks good questions.

I always look forward to your input, StalkerDog. You give me paws for reflection.

Joseph Smith made what appeared, as far as I can understand, some complimentry comments regarding the "negro". Infact even quite advanced for the average enlightened person of the time. He saw why they could not be is equal and given they had to achieve more to get there that made them a better man.
He still believed the should be kept separate though.
I am commenting from memory and cant remember the sources but they were in joseph smiths church history and the doctrine and covenants. Although I have just read that smith only wrote 30% of his history before it was killed.

That said, yes Brigham and the church were racist scumbags for the first 150 years, and most still are.
But hell so was the rest of the world with a few exceptions.
The racism from what I have read is what drove a lot of people out proud to be black.

Sorry. i meant to say joseph saw no reason why they could not be his equal.

Bullshit.

Joseph Smith was racist.

Brigham Young was an uber racist.

Just because Brigham Young was far more racist than Joseph Smith, does not absolve Joseph Smith of his racism.

Read up on our estimable Steve Benson's posts regarding the same, if you're curious.

(I think this is the right link: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1453398,1453398#msg-1453398)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 12:18PM by schlock.

There was scarcely a white man on the planet who wasn't racist in 1840.

Yes, even those who pretended to speak on God's behalf.

I am taking it for granted that we are all rational adults here and we all know he was only pretending to commune with Jehovah.

Perhaps.

But some white's views of life, and humanity, changed starkly and dramatically over the course of their lifetime. (I know mine have.)

Samuel Clemens and Abraham Lincoln to name two.

Show me a prominent leader in the mormon world that changed and grew, whose racist views ameliorated over time. That's right, the correct answer is NONE. If anything, most devolved into more entrenched and vile racist views and speeches, the older they became.

I suppose there's a reason why Amazing Grace has been stricken from the mormon hymnal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT88jBAoVIM

Lincoln may have "changed his view" for political reasons. Many were against slaves being used because the cheap labour hurt their own employment prospects or reduced the competetivness of their own businesses.

And queue the tired tropes:

- the civil war was solely based on states' rights vs. federal rights, and the north's need to exert its hegemony over the south

- the antebellum south was resplendently full of magnanimous and wise plantation owners, who oversaw utopian groups of simple but happy 'black folk'

- and etc.



Apologist much? FAIR or FARMS might be still be looking, if you're interested.

Am I a racist? I have biases obtained from influences of being born in Idaho in 1950. I never saw a black person until I was 10. The subtle racism of my early environment wasn't quite as negative as it would have been if I had been born in say, Mississippi or Alabama, but it was still there. I recieved a dilute form of Mormon indoctrination. I never heard of the "curse" on blacks until my early teens and personally rejected it. Today I work closely with several black people and don't have any animosity against them whatever. Our differences of culture are really inconsequential. The guy I'm working with currently is more accomplished than me in many areas and our work skills compliment each other. I'm still working on myself to strip out the residual ideas that were picked up that we all have, though. Rejecting Mormonism has helped immensely. It's inherent historic and doctrinal racism is one of the big reasons I'm not a Mormon anymore.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 11:37AM by rationalist01.

The definition of racism in my eyes, is someone who feels entitled to something, or better than other people because of the color of their skin. The statement has nothing to do with slavery or the past. Kids born today are not responsible for the sins of the father. Parents have every responsibility to teach their kids color of one's skin does not make any difference nor should infer any preference, whatsoever. The church however is very responsible for the sins of the past PROFITS. The sooner these ideas are removed from society the better. Kids should be taught about it, but they should not feel guilty for things they didn't do. Guilt and shame are tools of evil oppressors when used on innocent populations.

I heard and somewhat believed all those kinds of statements when I was growing up somewhere north of SLC. My parents and my priesthood leaders all taught me those things, we had books by prophets that said those things, and a lot of white supremist wannabe's who had all manner of opinion openly expressed. Opinions that were never shouted down by my mormon neighbors or family.

Once the Priesthood ban was lifted and members were commanded to pretend they never heard of it, a lot of that open opinion began to change.

Admittedly and ashamedly, it wasn't until several years after I moved away from my lilywhite community that I began to see my brothers and sisters as real human beings. That was when my belief in the perfection of mormon doctrine began to falter and real questions began. I rejected the church primarily on Brighams words and those who amplified and canonized them for decades afterward. Not only Race issues, he and his downline have mountains of untolerable bs.

I'm sorry for the things I used to believe. Today the church says it never taught those things, and as professional liars, that's just another reason to leave them behind.

I hope to heck not,since I have 4 adopted kids that are far from white. 4 shades of beautiful brown.

Well, I'm 50% Caucasian, and am proud of that too!!

I know that inter-racial marriages are certainly frowned upon in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I was just shocked by what Brigham Young said, but I also realize that people like that used religion to justify such things as slavery and the oppression of women.

It's a shame when religion warps people's minds!

I'm glad that you people here have broken free from its grasp, congratulations!

...was the final nail in the coffin. I learned about it when I was at BYU and on the computers doing research for a paper.

Isn't it funny how they allowed the JoD to be out there in the open? I suppose they thought that the zoobies would find some way to justify the vile hate he spewed because of all the other crap Mormons find a way to justify.

Even as a child, I never understood how whites were free from Adam's sin, but blacks had to pay for choices the didn't even remember due to the "veil."
Good thing it's made-up cult founded by a sexual predator so it doesn't have to be taken as truth, eh?

As for me, I have that tainted, cursed Lamanite blood flowing in my veins, so TSCC did a number on me. It's not just the people "descended from Ham," TSCC is an equal opportunity cult of racism.

The racism of the church and its leaders is one reason (among many) that helped push many of us to leave.

Proud To Be Black Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So, how many here are racist, be honest? The
> "curse of Ham" is just an excuse to "justify"
> racism and oppression!

I'm a racist.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,645527,645527#msg-645527

One of the most attractive and fundamental teachings in mormon doctrine is superiority to others.

The racials aspect of it has always been a part of it. It has been painted over many times. From "God has told me" to "we don't know why God chose this" to "we never taught it, but it does not matter now". It is still there.

Mormonism engenders those superior feelings, even in a racial aspect.

The only reason they have backed off is because they were legally/financially forced to otherwise the word of God would not change, ever.

They still discourage race mixing. They feel uncomfortable if their daughters date black men, they only call minorities into big callings as a token, and only the uncle toms.

Until they clean their past, openly apologize, their ugly past, represented by your quote will float in cyberspace, unapologetic, somewhere between doctrine, opinion and memory.

I knew it was wrong as an adolescent. When I spoke out against it they called me a follower of Satan. Funny thing was, when they dropped the racist doctrine I was still evil and they were still "good." I wish I'd had the balls to walk away from all of them right there. I put up with my parents until I was 49. Then it was off. I haven't spoken to them since, and what little correspondence there has been has dissolved in rancor every time.

I beat you by a decade. I stopped contact in my late 30s. Mormonism tends to create some incredibly selfish, racist, and holier than thou people I never want to deal with again.

Mormonisms racist past is one of the main reasons I left tscc. It makes me sick reading that garbage.

I am white.

2 of my good friends are black.

I married a Mexican.

I have many Mexican friends.


I probably still have some good ol Mormon racism flowing thru my veins. (From my TBM Dad, who calmed down a bit in his later years)

The racism in the mormon church is one of the many reasons that I left. A BIG reason! I being white didn't want to raise my black children in the church. I stopped taking them when they were very young. They know little of the mormon church.

Funny this came up on the board. Just last night my 16 yr. old son said his friend had mormon missionaries coming around and now the family has to go to church.

I took the opportunity and I explained the curse of Cain to my son. Then I asked, "does that sound racist to you?". He laughed in disgust and said, "yes!"

It's easy for those outside of the church to recognize the racism that members are blind too. Well they see it; they're just okay with it as is.