I'm not dumb, but something happened the other day that I didn't respond to very well. How could I do better?

A 45 y/o Mormon male, while discussing a barber: "Man, my regular barber was sick, and I need a haircut. I went to xyz and he did me up right! Warm shaving cream, a straight razor, man it was wonderful! My barber doesn't do any of that. All I was missing was a black boy shining my shoes!"

Me: " " accompanied by a blank stare, then, finally, looking at my running shoes. "I don't think these can be shined."

Now bear in mind, barber xyz is African American, regular barber isn't, and I'm in a Civil War southern state.

The idea that a black boy's place is shining shoes is just beyond anything I'd imagine, or utter.

How to respond in the future, and is it his Mormon bias, or his southern bias speaking?

I'm originally from the deep south and it's primarily his southern bias...however, I know a lot of racist white people who joined the mormon church because of its racism...ie, blacks being cursed and whites should not marry blacks. Most of these individuals became inactive when the church allowed blacks to have the priesthood and/or when black converts/investigators started showing up at their wards.

I lived in Mississippi for 10 years (grew up in Houston). Couldn't believe the crap local rednecks would say-with no intended slurs. It's not a Mormon thing, it's a southern culture of segregation dating back generations. I've heard guys spew racist crap that would get them beaten to a pulp outside of the deep South.

A good response would've been; "Yeah- cause white boys are too dumb & lazy to shine shoes correctly".

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A good response would've been; "Yeah- cause white
> boys are too dumb & lazy to shine shoes
> correctly".

Fight racism with racism. That'll work.

Have you ever lived in the deep south? If not, you'd be hard pressed to grasp the deep rooted racism that still thrives there. Sometimes, you need to smack someone in the head with a verbal shovel to get their attention. It's like trying to explain Utah Mormons to people, in other states that have never lived in Utah.
Here's a story, from yesterday, in the same town that I lived in. Brandon is about 98% white. How can this happen in this day and age? Because attitudes are generational & passed on from family members. Reasoning with deep seated racists is about as futile as trying to reason with TBMs.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/11/us/mississippi-hate-crime-sentencing/

Completely agree...unless you live it/see it first hand, yo will never comprehend the level of racism that still occurs. The Mississippi town I grew up is still very segregated. Very few black people live outside of the part of town that is referred to as "the ni**er quarters." Even now, certain subdivisions act like the white HOA representative in "A Raisin in the Sun...highly suggested that black people (or people of any race that is not white) are not welcome.

Yep. Did you grow up in the Delta? I had the entire state as my territory (plus eastern edge of Louisiana & SE Arkansas). I thought Jackson was bad, until I spent time in Greenville, Cleveland, Rosedale, etc. Truly eye opening.

No. I grew up about an hour north of the Gulf Coast and an hour from New Orleans.

I remember when I first lived down there and heard somebody casually use the "N" word. I tried to look cool but obviously did not. The person who had said it stared back at me, and said, "WHAT? It didn't mean nothin!"

It was not verbally acknowledged, but black reps were never sent into the parish next door, because it was a known stomping ground for David Duke and others of his KKK Klub. It simply wasn't safe.

Racism was still very much alive and well down there at that time, and I can't imagine that it has changed much.

Picayune, MS...a little over an hour drive from Hammond. I think Hammond was in the same Stake (Slidell)...I know Covington was...in the late 80's at least.

Is his favorite song possibly 'Chattanooga Choo Choo'?

"...Boy, you can give me a shine!"

Meh.

Listen to the song from the musical Avenue Q, "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist". The whole point of the song is to show that we all have prejudices and make jokes based on race, but it doesnt mean we committ hate crimes or hate other races.

I think the more important question is: why are you hanging out with 45 year old racist mormon dudes?

As a white person who grew up in the segregated South, I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective. But first of all, just to set the record clear, I've lived all over the US and left behind any delight in humor about 'them' many decades ago.

One generous interpretation of the comment of the 45yo is that it reflects not so much about any person's place, but just the reality of who does what within his experience. Perhaps he is an OBSERVER rather than an ADVOCATE.

Comparing racists to TBMs in light of this perspective yields some interesting conclusions. For the person who thinks that Mormonism represents everything that is right and true and good because that has always been their experience -- it is all they have ever known -- in any conflict between a Mormon and a non-Mormon, the Mormon must be right. It is the non-Mormon's "place" to stop being stubborn about things and just agree. That would be the correct and natural order of things.

For those of us who were raised Mormon, or racist, or both, and then escaped, it is something to reflect on. What other dark corners are there in my life that feel natural to me today? May I someday root them out also.

As for your reply, I wouldn't attempt to improve on it. Sounds about right to me, especially as an impromptu comeback.

JAR

What? Racism's totally over. They elected Obama even.

There can't possibly still be racism anywhere.

Can there?

What is wrong with a shocked look and say "What?" or "Excuse me!"

When they go on to explain themselves, just look at them funny and say, "No, that is not okay."

Judith Martin,* who wrote a column for many years (and books) as "Miss Manners," was asked how to respond to a racial or other such offensive joke or remark. It's impossible to capture her voice, but it was sort of (*long, awkward pause*), then, "uhhh-....HUH!," with the "HUH!" simply riddled with sarcasm, voice dropping sharply downward at the very end of the brief syllable.

*She served as White House Chief of Protocol.

How to respond? May not need to say anything. Understand who is making the statement and the times and in this case, what was usual for the times.
Look at it as an observation about someone else whose experience is different from yours.

I would say that racist comments are probably a combination of the two filters. I am from the south. Southern white people do think racist thoughts. HOWEVER, most of the white people I know from the south do not SAY overtly racist things like that. At least not in front of people who they do not know VERY, very well. (Lately, southern white people will correct other southern white people for saying inappropriate crap.)

One thing that I have noticed in my dealings with Mormons is they're likely to say things that are inappropriate. The inappropriateness could be because the comments are overly personal, overly familiar, or because the person assumes "authority" over the person they are speaking to.

I think it is Southern + Mormon = inappropriate comments. Just my 2 cents. ;)

Susie Q, this person was in his forties, not in his 60's. We that age know better. Many of us married interacially. I grew up by Detroit. My evil (seriously evil) grandparents incredibly racist, raised my parents that way. Parents tried ot raise us different, and suceeded to a certain extent.

I just don't think being from the south is an excuse for anything. That in and of itself is a stereotype.

Now, i have heard those of older generations speak like this, they may claim to have been raised that way because of this. But not in your 40's.

There is no excuse for this. Plain and simple.

Perhaps you could have responded in a funny way by saying something like "Oh the boys who used to shine shoes are now running multi-national companies - so wouldn't be available for such a service", and laughed. You may well need to prepare yourself for a racist rant though, if you do so in the future. Those sort of answers often bring up comments like "Yeah these &^%$ are sure getting above themeselves these days!". Which is even more disgusting.

I know how you feel about those sort of comments, and I don't think you did badly at all, you answered but did not support his words.

I work with Aboriginal people in Australia, and though a large percentage of Australians are for the Aboriginal people getting ahead and having equal opportunities, there are the occasion die-hards who still say awful things. I simply state on those occasions, "I am sorry but I cannot agree with you". If they ask why I am VERY prepared, after years study, with a lengthy and good answer. It works!!

Most people know what I do in my work and so don't say racist things around me. But I do on occasion have to stand up for my beleifs and day to day experiences. On one occasion I was struck dumb by what someone said and I felt TERRIBLE about it, but to that level of shocking racism there is no answer. I decided I simply must just consider the source there, and forgive myself.

I think you did fine, and I am So proud of you for worrying about it, and wanting to think it through with us here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2015 12:09AM by fluhist.

Respond: yeah, that black boy shined my shoes until he went to law school and saved my ass in court. I'm so glad times have changed.

I hate to tell all you self-righteous bozos, but in the not-that-long-ago past shoe shining in a good barber shop was one of the best jobs a young black man could get. If the clientele was rich, they got very good tips in addition to their salary. Quite a few earned their college tuition in this way. In 70+ years, I never saw a white shoe shine boy in the South.

The south was very segregated when I lived there in 1999. Especially in the small towns high in the Appalachians. There was always the rail road tracks or a street that would separate white from black. Mexicans with Asians usually lived in trailer parks somewhere in the perimeters. As a Mishi we lived in the "colored town" or "ni**er town to the old timers. I remember white police men would stop us and tell us to get out there, because our color was wrong. It was confusing to a 20 year old, from Utah, to say the least.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2015 09:08PM by poopstone.

I am southern. My ancestors were southern. Many of them were racists. Thankfully, my parents tried to put an end to that by not teaching their kids to treat people differently based on skin color. Racism was probably more rampant in my small town than my sheltered world allowed me to experience.

I was so disappointed when investigators came to my branch, only to be called racial slurs. The racism came from a few rude members, but effectively kept the branch white. This bothered me a lot. I believe my mom used the old church is perfect, members are not excuse. She was disturbed, too. But I don't think that anything has changed in that branch.

Now I live on the MS coast (waving at the previous poster one hour from me). My kids *could* attend private schools to avoid interacting with the variety of people, incomes, races, beliefs. However, they are in public schools. My spouse and I prefer they learn to be around people from all walks of life.

My oldest kid's best friend right now has "brown skin," as my kids put it. They struck up a friendship that has allowed our families to begin a family friendship. We just spent the day catching Mardi Gras beads with this family, outside of the dad's business.

For a change, we were the only white family in the group. The families were extremely welcoming to us, after the initial sense that we were intruding. It's an interesting feeling to know that the tables are turned. I felt deeply appreciative that our kids were all playing together with no problems. And I was grateful to be invited to one of their family traditions.

I don't know what the future of the friendship is. I do know that I will encourage it, just as I try to encourage any good relationships.

Sorry for the rambling. I just wanted to say that many people are trying to do better. Just don't read comments on the local news. Racism is sadly alive there. :(

I think that you handled it just fine. It is not always possible to think quickly on your feet to give a snappy reply.

I would have responded with a death stare and then, "WTF is wrong with you? Do you realize how sickeningly racist that sounded?"