I never had this problem before I married my exmo husband. Before I knew my husband, I had no issues with Mormonism. I was open-minded about most religions and, in fact, had the attitude that people can and should believe whatever they want to believe. But then I met my husband, who was an active Mormon but was kinda on his way out of the faith. Slowly, my eyes opened to the damage and divisiveness of the LDS faith and how it can be used as an effective tool to destroy families.

I watched as my husband's ex wife used Mormonism to drive a wedge between my husband and his kids. She used it as a yardstick by which to measure my worthiness as a person and, more importantly, as my husband's wife. I'd say she also used it to measure my appropriateness as the stepmother of my husband's daughters, but honestly, I think even if I were the most faithful Mormon alive, she would have declared me less of a person because I married her ex husband. For the record, my husband is the sweetest guy I know. He's not LDS anymore, but he certainly didn't need to be Mormon to be awesome. Frankly, I was delighted when he left the church.

So now, having been happily married to my husband for twelve years, I am left with all this knowledge of how toxic Mormonism can be. I end up saying things that make me look "bigoted" to those who don't know anything about the church. Today, in a Facebook group, someone posted this...

http://stopmasturbationnow.org

I had seen this before, probably here on RfM. I thought it was meant to be satire, but wasn't sure, given how Mormons (and other religious people) feel about masturbation. But anyway, I mentioned that Mormons have odd beliefs about masturbation. I say they are odd because I truly do think they are odd. Masturbation is a very normal, healthy thing to do. And I have read so many threads here about people who have been damaged due to being interrogated about their personal masturbation habits. I have heard Mission President Allen Pratt's lecture about avoiding masturbation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd1nzk_mormon-mission-pres-allan-pratt-on_news#from=embediframe

And I have seen BYU-I's creepy video about rescuing one's roommates from "porn addiction".

But I forget that not everyone knows about this stuff, including many Mormons. So when I mention what I know about it and how I'm glad I wasn't raised LDS (which I truly am), I come off looking "bigoted".

Naturally, someone wanted to confront me over my comment and accused me of "Mormon bashing". I thought about writing all I know, but it turned out there was an inactive Mormon in the group who knew nothing about Mark E. Petersen's advice about how to avoid masturbating or Boyd K. Packer's pamphlet To Young Men Only. While this woman claims to be a "terrible" Mormon, I figured that discussing that stuff would be hurtful and potentially embarrassing to her. So I apologized for bringing it up and said it would be best if I didn't comment more on the subject, even though I look like a bigot. If I'm honest, I think most people are bigots to some degree. And while I don't hate Mormons, I do hate Mormonism. I think I have good reasons to feel the way I do, but I don't want to mess up someone else's faith.

I have a sister who accused me of being bigoted and ignorant because I told her truthfully how I feel about the church. Of course, she doesn't know anything about Mormonism. She only knows some Mormons and thinks they are "nice people". She's seen the clean, family-oriented facade. I feel pretty confident that if she really knew about the church, she wouldn't feel so peachy about it. But since I am her "little sister", she won't listen to me. I'll always be 12 to her.

Just a little a venting...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2015 11:08AM by knotheadusc.

Hopefully you're feeling better after venting.

How go things by you and your husband? I'm guessing Germany (IIRC) is going well for you?

We're doing fine! Germany is a great place to live! I hope we can stay for a long time.

knotheadusc Wrote:
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> We're doing fine! Germany is a great place to live! I hope we can stay for a long time.


How are you coping with the higher prices I remember when I was there? IIRC, a Bic Mac, fries and coke was like $10 US when I was there last (1979).

It's not so bad now. Last time we were here, we were Army and got COLA, which we needed. Now, the euro has become less expensive. Also, this time we have no child support or car payments. We lucked into a cheap house, too.

knotheadusc Wrote:
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> It's not so bad now. Last time we were here, wewere Army and got COLA, which we needed. Now, the euro has become less expensive. Also, this time we have no child support or car payments. We lucked into a cheap house, too.

Glad to hear it's working out OK. Out of curiosity, what's the conversion rate now for the Euro?

My husband says $1.10 buys 1 euro. When we were here last time, it was more like $1.38 for 1 euro.

Your sister misunderstands the term. Notice the definition talks about irrational beliefs against someone. If she thinks your claims are irrational or unfair, shiw her the LDS quotes or dictrines that teach offensive concepts.

Its safe to say that you cant be bigoted for standing against bigotry, right? If a person makes racist comments and you tell him his comment was racist, you are not being bigoted. Youre being the opposite. So when Mormon doctrine makes racist statements and you call them out on it, you are being not bigoted. And someone who accuses you is misinformed and may be bigoted himself. Bigote often deny threid own bigotry as we see with Mormonism all the time.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

She may be bigoted against me because I am eight years younger and it's hard for her to think of me as a 42 year old woman. I tried to explain to her the origin of my opinions about the church, but she dismissed them in favor of her casual experiences with people she *knows* who are LDS. I feel pretty certain that she knows very little about what Mormons actually believe. But then, she'd be like many other people who know nothing about the church.

When I met my husband, I had only known a few Mormons. Most of them seemed like basically nice folks (and I'm certain they actually are very nice people). I had read Secret Ceremonies and, though it was not a very flattering book about the church, I didn't come away from reading it thinking that Mormons were horrible people. If I had, I never would have gotten involved with my husband. I even got upset when the psychologist I was seeing back when my husband and I were dating described Mormonism as a "cult".

It was only after I married him and started seeing for myself how the church can be used to divide and hurt people that my opinions changed. Then I started hanging out here and reading more and that led to my opinions about Mormonism permanently changing.

I think most Americans know nothing about religion and we've been conditioned to think religious beliefs are "sacred". We should accept a person's beliefs regardless of how they affect their behaviors. That's why it's hard to have a real conversation about this kind of stuff without seeming "bigoted".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2015 11:55AM by knotheadusc.

Haha stopmasturbationnow... I stumbled across it last year on facebook. It had me busting a gut laughing for a week. My immaturity shows.

Yeah... It's definitely the work of a brilliant satirist.

There is a myth that Mormons love that criticizing religious beliefs is bigoted. It is not bigoted to call someone out when they are wrong, especially when their beliefs and actions hurt other people.

I think Islam is a dangerous religion. I know several Muslims and have no problem with Muslims. However, their religion promotes sexism, violence and homophobia. Islamic states murder gay people with abandon. That doesn't mean I can't have Muslim friends, so long as they don't push their beliefs on my. My two favorite professors were Turkish.

To paraphrase one their favorite aphorisms, you can hate Mormonism but love Mormons. I hate the LDS Church, but some of my favorite people in the world are Mormons.

Exactly.

So true, I think the church is less bigoted than it was, as it wasn't until 1978 that men who weren't white were able to get the priesthood, and it's still bigoted towards women in that mothers aren't allowed to hold their infants in a blessing, and female missionaries aren't allowed to baptize and confirm those they've converted.

You'll seem like a twelve-year-old to your sister until you take adult stands on things. Adults realize they are responsible for the societies they create. Children live in the societies that are created for them.

You don't want to "mess up anyone's faith?" Why not? You realize, of course, that religions that preach homophobia and shunning create a society that is a hostile environment to LGBT youth; and they suicide.

Religions that use family members against each other by applying psychological pressure are cults, of course. (How to tell if you're in a cult? Try to leave it. If you can, easily; then you're not). Cults psychologically damage members, and, again, create hostile societies based on dividing people between worthy and unworthy and using emotional ties to punish--all for the benefit of the cult-institution.

Why wouldn't you want to mess this up? Look at the damage it's caused your husband and step-daughters. You don't want ignorant people who don't know what they're talking about calling you a bigot? Educate them. They'll come to agree with you.

Frankly, they shut you up--like your sister does--simply to bully you into submission. She's probably done it all your life.

Wow. Thanks for that, asshole.

You're willing to call me an asshole. So stand up the same way to people who call you a bigot.

That's right. I am willing to call you an asshole. Do not assume you know how I deal with people in my personal life. This isn't an intervention and you are not my therapist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2015 04:32PM by knotheadusc.

Your OP was about how you deal with people in your personal life; and how they deal with you.

I think bigotry is to some extent universal. Everyone of us, no matter how much we'd like a world of perfect equality, will still value 'my tribe, my friends, my family e.t.c.' over all those "others". But that is not really what I think the term bigot implies. It is not merely an us-vs-them mentality that is to a certain degree an inescapable part of human nature and political reality. It's the moral superiority that really defines bigotry. And a moral superiority of people vs other people, not their ideas and beliefs.

It is indeed weird how sensitive believers are to criticism of beliefs. But it's only bigotry if you conflate your religious beliefs with your intrinsic worth and equality before the law. And this kind of conflation of human worth and equality with something external, like say the clothes you wear determines your right to not be molested, is typical of bigotry.

Yes. See, I did not want to start a big argument about Mormonism in that particular forum because I got the sense that it would be opening a big can of worms. I don't actually know the inactive member in that group personally. What I know of her, I like and respect. I got the sense that she had not been exposed to this stuff before. I figured Mark E. Peterson's list of how to deal with masturbation was enough because she seemed shocked. It didn't seem appropriate to hit her over the head with more stuff right now.

At the same time, I find that if you come out with too much stuff too soon, you run the risk of not being heard. People think you're a hater.

As for my sister, we did actually have it out over her treating me like I'm 12. The incident I wrote of happened in 2007. I saw her for the first time since then at Thanksgiving. It went relatively well. She only insulted me once over several days.

I don't have a problem with assertiveness or talking about how sick I think the church is. I just think that many people are so sensitive to what they perceive as bigotry that they have trouble hearing legitimate messages. And I don't think being brash and outspoken always works, which is why I chose not to go on the offensive at this time.

I don't like Mormonism and, trust me, lots of people know it. But there is a time and place and appropriate style for every confrontation.

I hear you, here. It really pisses me off when someone says something about Mormonism being off, and someone else goes on about burning bushes, talking donkeys, or whatever, saying, all religions are kooky. You know, just benignly kooky. No. They're not the same. There is a big difference between a Catholicism that preaches liberation theology with priests who get disappeared, and a Catholocism that supports right-wing death squads. It may be the same kooky virgin and crucifix, but those two things aren't the same.

I know that feeling about always being 12 to your sisters. No matter how old I get my two older sisters see me as 12.

I think it's tough to abandon old family roles. I am 8, 11, and 13 years younger than my sisters are. They changed my diapers. Though they are better than they used to be (mainly because I started refusing to spend time with them), they will always see me as the baby. I'm pretty much in another generation.