http://www.sltrib.com/entertainment/2284464-155/going-clear-documentary-unites-voices-against

I had hoped that it would see at least a limited run in theaters, but I guess I'll have to get a DVD version.

The obvious similarities between the COS and LDS heavy-handed tactics are noteworthy.

The Prison of Belief.

Hard not to see that similarity.

Hubbard was Joseph with Miscavige as textbook Brigham.

Same old scam but with more formidable Danites.

More formidable Danites? Do you really find that plausible? Perhaps the morg is just better able to hide the truths and generally be far more cunning. The stories are out there. I find that even on websites such as these there seems to often be a need to keep things on the superficial,sunny side. Some things have not changed.
I find when I have spoken to people outside the church the collective opinion has been that members are just silly and benign. It will remain that way until the dark underbelly of the church is exposed.

Cult Members never see themselves in any example no matter how similar the example may be.

It is a fact that Joseph Smith did not read from gold plates. He read from a rock that was in his hat. Reading from gold plates is way more believable but still a lie. The Cult Church is based on a lie. If Cult members want to believe a lie(s), they will.

Challenge for members of the LDS Church - Provide one and only one factual evidence that Joseph Smith actually read from gold plates. Impossible.

"Provide one and only one factual evidence..."

No need for straw men. The BoM narrative itself is factually impossible. Instead, careful analysis shows that it sprung from Joe's imagination as well as bits and pieces of 19th century Americana.

I agree with saanhetna. If anything, the CULT has more formidable Danites.
The main difference between the CULT and other theocratic nightmares is that most people know what those ones are about (at least on some level). The CULT hides everything and then suddenly you find out that you are dancing with the devil.
That is worse than the other Danites around.

The CULT is worse than ISIS I think at least in terms of what is hidden and not hidden. We know what ISIS is about unlike the CULT. Their intentions are clear to people whereas the CULT hides everything and screams "GOTCHA now pay, pray and obey until you drop dead."

I wonder if the LDS leaders are worried about this film? One of the points the filmmaker is trying to show is that the tax-exempt status enjoyed by scientology (and other cults) should be revoked.

I love that we live in an age of increased transparency.

The book the documentary is based on makes explicit analogies between Scientology and Mormonism and I wonder if the movie will touch on them at all. Here's a direct quote about the Book of Abraham:

"This fraud has been known for decades, but it has made little difference in the growth of the religion or the devotion of its adherents. Belief in the irrational is one definition of faith, but it is also true that clinging to absurd or disputed doctrines binds a community of faith together and defines a barrier to the outside world."

Wright, Lawrence (2013-01-17). Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief (p. 356). Knopf. Kindle Edition.

The only reason anyone converts to Mormonism is because the Elders beat the Scientologists to their door.

In 1991 Time came out with an expose of Scientology, as I recall it was noteworthy because previously to that the media was terrified to even talk about the stupid cult because an army of lawyers would be dispatched to intimidate and harass. It is fantastic to see a filmmaker stand up to them. Edit. They haven't given up though, if you google "Going Clear" the first result is a slick Scientology produced attack on Alex Gibney



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2015 11:03AM by ladell.

Scientology is a joke. It's followers are too few and its literature too bizarre and unscholarly to be taken seriously by the majority. Its attack against psychiatry and psychology stems from a personal beef L. Ron Hubbard had with a Psychiatric Organization; they refused to publish his 'Dianetics' practices as legitimate mental health recovery tools. This slight led to him childishly declaring that all of Psychiatry was replete with rapists, murderers, and people after your brain to lobotomize you.

They claim a worldwide following of 8.5 million; it's probably closer to under 500,000, based on non scientology polling. Their policies are too polarizing. Entire families have to join in order to stay connected in any meaningful way, and most people aren't willing to forsake family connections to join a bizzare cult. In my opinion, it's not big enough to be considered a real threat, and Mormonism is much slicker, has much more political clout, more members, is smarter, and it's recruitment tactics have been refined to appeal to vulnerable, emotionally fragile men and women who tend to have little education and low social standing.

midwestanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They claim a worldwide following of 8.5 million;
> it's probably closer to under 500,000, based on
> non scientology polling

Typo, fellow anon? They're certainly under 50,000; current best estimates by ex-Scienos in the know range from 20,000 to 40,000, of which 7000 to 10,000 are stuck in 'billion-year contracts' in the infamous Sea Org.

ITA with caedmon - get your TBMs to watch Going Clear. Steve Hassan and other experts recommend discussing the facts around OTHER high-control groups as a way to get around the thought-stopping conditioning that keeps people from seeing the bad in their own cult. Watch together, have a nice long discussion about the bad things, and don't mention TSCC at all.

Other parallels I can think of off the top of my head include the cosmology (other worlds and planets), billions of dollars in reserves and property, excessive volunteer demands, hands-on 'healing', a special 'temple' for those in good standing only, different degrees of priesthood/powers, driving out demon spirits, extreme 'purification' of the physical body, a cultural bias toward doing business with (and ripping off) other members, suspicion of conventional medical treatment, special treatment for celebrities, and threatening dissenting members with expulsion. Oh, and members leaving at a rapid clip, whole families at a time.

(And yeah, fair game definitely reminds me of the Danites - were they were around today they'd certainly hire private investigators, go through people's trash and attempt to destroy their reputations.)

Get your TBMs to watch this if you can.

There are alot of parallels between Scientology and Mormonism - hiding true history, shifting doctrine, persecution complex, don't listen to critics, emphasis on giving money with no fiscal accountability, unquestioning obedience to leadership, no happiness outside of group, disconnecting (shunning) those who leave......

Perhaps our TBMs will see the similarities and the light bulbs will go on.

... sparking it back to illumination again is a tall order.

But, never say never.

Check the 3rd slamtoon down ...

http://www.salamandersociety.com/slamtoons/celestial/2014/141028.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2015 07:12PM by beyondashadow.

I would love it if a talented filmmaker created a similar exposé on mormonism.